Last post on May 21, 2013 at 12:18 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Kia Optima, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#16958 of 18196 Re: C/D's choice for best mid-sized family sedan [akirby]
Oct 04, 2012 (1:05 pm)
The Camry was just redesigned for 2012 and the Malibu for 2013! If they are in need of improvement to stay competitive... wow.
As you noted, Toyota doesn't have any problem selling Camrys. And Hertz et. al. need lots of mid-sized cars, so Chevy can sell a ton of Malibus there if needed for volume.
Hard to imagine that one of the oldest mid-sized family cars, once the new Mazda6 hits the streets, is the Sonata... a couple of years ago it was the latest and greatest. Fast times at Mid-Sized High.
#16959 of 18196 Re: C/D's choice for best mid-sized family sedan [backy]
Oct 04, 2012 (1:39 pm)
Toyota seems intent with putting minimal investment into the Camry and since they seem to be selling so well as is it's hard to argue too much with that approach.
Of course they run the risk of losing sales down the road if they get too far behind but Camry buyers do seem to be loyal.
#16960 of 18196 Why am I picking a Fusion?
Oct 04, 2012 (7:29 pm)
All these cars have somewhere from 170 to 190lb-ft at varying rpms. The Fusion 1.6L EcoBoost has it WAY DOWN at 2500rpm and all the others need 3900rpm or more to hit peak. Case closed. I don't care if the interior was straight from a 1987 Tempo. I don't care if it gets good mileage or not. It has TORQUE. Being able to select the 6-speed manual is another plus but for my wife she will stick to the automatic. Another bonus, longest wheelbase, which is key to a good smooth ride. There's a reason I drive a Suburban and not a Tahoe, and it's wheelbase. There's a reason I cherish my Gran Torino over say, a Granada, and it's wheelbase.
I am really really glad we didn't order a new 2012 a year ago. The 2013 model is twice the car the 2010-2012 Fusion was and in my opinion surpasses any Camry/Accord/Altima. Stepdaughter has a 2010 Malibu and she loves it but my wife wasn't impressed and the 2013 seems to be smaller and less efficient so we'll pass. I'm not even discussing the 200/Avenger. The Passat would be my pick but only as a TDI and honestly I can get a Fusion Hybrid that can do better for the same money. Sonata/Optima are styled too wild. That leaves the Mazda and while I haven't driven one, I can't say anything about it excites me or shows me something all the others haven't been doing for years.
#16961 of 18196 Re: Why am I picking a Fusion? [occupant1]
Oct 04, 2012 (8:07 pm)
If it's low-end torque you want, the obvious choice is the Passat SE TDI... 236 lb-ft 1500 rpm. And you can get it with a stick. And for $1000 less list than the lowest priced Fusion Hybrid... which of course doesn't have a stick.
#16962 of 18196 Re: C/D's choice for best mid-sized family sedan [backy]
Oct 05, 2012 (4:54 am)
Congrats to the new Accord.
That's funny... speaking of Bond, I am watching 'From Russia With Love" right now.
Also, when I saw "spoiler alert" I thought there was a recall on spoilers....like the aftermarket unit on my Optima. Duhhh. (It is a copy of the stock spoiler). See, it takes a hard-core car guy to think of that first!
While I am talking about spoiler's, you can get aftermarket clones from "The Wing King", outside Detroit. I paid $109 for mine, already painted to match.
#16963 of 18196 Re: C/D's choice for best mid-sized family sedan [cski]
Oct 05, 2012 (5:30 am)
I just read this article and read the Motor Trend comparison where they picked the Passat. Although I am interested in the new Fusion, having to use premiun fuel is a non-seller. From want I've read, I'm looking forward to the new Mazda 6 and it's Skyactiv system. I hope it is at the Detroit show in January.
#16964 of 18196 Re: C/D's choice for best mid-sized family sedan [rmiranne]
Oct 05, 2012 (5:42 am)
You don't have to use premium in the Fusion - 87 works just fine.
If you want torque and don't care about fuel economy or a stick then the 2.0LEB has 270 lb/ft of torque - same or more than most 3.5L V6s.
#16965 of 18196 Mazda's Skyactive system thus far....
Oct 05, 2012 (7:35 am)
Well, Mazda continues to use Zoom-Zoom as their identity, and some of their cars do just that.
Mazda has been advertising the CX-5 like crazy, so being a car guy, (and the son-in-law of a Mazda employee), I checked it out.
155 HP? 9.5 seconds to 60??? 150 lb-ft? 3600 lb's? Another 45 Hp and 45 lb-ft please.
That just doesn't cut it. How is that Zoom-Zoom? It's a shame to have such a great handling, quality vehicle and then handicap it with a power deficit. Kind of like forcing a marathon runner breath through his nose.
#16966 of 18196 Re: Why am I picking a Fusion? [occupant1]
Oct 05, 2012 (8:16 am)
"All these cars have somewhere from 170 to 190lb-ft at varying rpms. The Fusion 1.6L EcoBoost has it WAY DOWN at 2500rpm and all the others need 3900rpm or more to hit peak. Case closed."
Actually, without being able to see the actual dyno graph showing torque and at what rpms, it is a bit premature to declare case closed. The reason I say this is how the specs are advertised. The opportune (but potentially allusive) word used is 'peak' torque. What these advertised specs don't tell you is that, while a 190 lb-ft peak may reveal itself at..say..3900 rpm, there may a relatively flat and very useable scale of 185lb-ft through the rev range of 2000 rpm and up to 3850 rpm. I am using these figures to make an example. It is a bit exaggerated to make my point. But with todays such advanced electronics/mechanical electronics in engine/tran management, very real world numbers and the scale of flat available torque still is not that far off the example above.
Long, flat and high torque curves in a lower than average rev range are most easily acquired by either using a turbo or blower (supercharger). Of course the (finally...it's about time) recognition that turboing is not only the most economical and clean way to extract the most HP, torque, urge and fuel economy out of an engine, being finally upon us in day-to-day-use cars (and trucks soon too I suspect), is a welcome advancement in modern vehicles hitting the market in greater numbers.
"I don't care if the interior was straight from a 1987 Tempo. "
Seriously? Now that is a bit too forgiving, IMO.
"That leaves the Mazda and while I haven't driven one, I can't say anything about it excites me or shows me something all the others haven't been doing for years."
I have never understood how someone can make such a statement without an actual test drive. If you don't like the styling, then say so, as that is valid without a drive.
#16967 of 18196 Re: C/D's choice for best mid-sized family sedan [rmiranne]
Oct 05, 2012 (11:03 am)
Just read a drive test of the new Mazda6 and they said it goes on sale in Europe later this year and will be selling in U.S. in January. Don't know if that is the official word from Mazda or just the reviewer's estimate. Pictures look great and the article went gaga over the handling. Link below.