Last post on Dec 10, 2013 at 5:02 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Kia Optima, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#16765 of 20239 Re: midsize car sales Jan-March 2012 [benjaminh]
Apr 08, 2012 (12:04 pm)
I think it's very possible the all-new Altima, with exceptional fuel economy and updated telematics and styling, will overtake the boring Camry. The Altima has a reputation for reliability also, but is much more interesting to drive and look at. And has better fuel economy than the non-hybrid Camry. Altima is probably grabbing lots of sales now based on close-out pricing and fleet sales--I see a LOT of them on rental lots (which is fine with me, as they make a nice rental).
Similarly, I expect the new Fusion to leap up in sales, maybe also overtake Camry, once it's available in volume. It's a fantastic looking car, should drive much better than the Camry if Ford didn't ruin its ride/handling balance, and also should get excellent fuel economy.
We'll have to see on the new, smaller Accord, but sales should perk up there also if Honda did their homework. The new Altima and Fusion will be tough competitors, though.
Malibu is really pricey now with only the mild hybrid available, and C/D was very unkind on that car--ranked it below all the new mid-sized sedans including the Camry (2nd worst in the group). Maybe the new Malibu with regular gas engines and lower price will fare better.
Another interesting thing about these numbers is that two of the better mid-sized cars--Passat and Optima--didn't even make this list. Although sales of both are reportedly surging. And the Mazda6 is no slouch, but four years is a long time in this competitive market. Also it needs better fuel economy to be competitive.
#16766 of 20239 Re: midsize car sales Jan-March 2012 [benjaminh]
Apr 08, 2012 (12:15 pm)
I would doubt that anybody will overtake Camry as I think Toyota will do enough discounting and rebating to keep it in the lead but it will probably be close. The others will all move up closer but the ranking among the top four will probably stay the same. I'm talking for the entire year of 2012. A three month period can be the result of a lot of short term things. I don't believe the new Accord is going to be any game changer from what I've seen of it. In fact, it could drift even further behind.
The only change in the ranking IMO is that it's possible Sonata will overtake both the Malibu and the Accord by the end of 2012. And even though I don't think it will happen there is a chance that Altima could overtake Camry by years end if Toyota isn't very aggressive with it's marketing. The new Altima is very interesting with the high mpg and little bump in HP/Torque.
#16767 of 20239 Re: midsize car sales Jan-March 2012 [backy]
Apr 08, 2012 (1:05 pm)
backy: I think you're right that Altima might someday exceed the Camry in sales. I'd say that epic battle is already underway. Nissan is very ambitious and aggressive, and I think they would enjoy the shock value and headlines of toppling the car that's been number 1 for about the last dozen years.
But, living in KY, I think I read that Toyota has the capacity to build up to c. 500,000 Camrys in their huge factory here.
Does Nissan have that same capacity in TN? Maybe. I just don't know.
I do like the looks of the 2013 Altima, as well as the performance stats. 38 mpg hwy!!? For a car that big? That's truly amazing.
Honda will come back somewhat, I think, with the new Accord, but I don't see how they are ever going to get back to #2 right now. But they might make it back to #3.
But Ford will have something to say about that. The new Fusion looks great. I think Fusion and Accord will be locked in a race for 3 & 4 just like Toyota and Nissan will be battling for 1 & 2.
One certainty seems to be that the Sonata simply can't sell many more than it does now. The factory is going at full tilt already. They might get some more from Korea, but I still don't see how they can sell more than about 220,000 in calendar year 2012. Hyundai needs to build another USA factory asap...
#16768 of 20239 your guess for midsize sales for 2012
Apr 08, 2012 (1:08 pm)
This is for the calendar year, not the model year. Here's my guess
Camry : 450,000
Sonata: 230,000 (10k higher than my guess of just ten minutes ago!)
These cars do offer amazing bang for the buck...
In 2013 I think VW will be joining this list with their Passat. They put an ad in my newspaper way up here in Louisville for jobs because they are hiring for a third shift. Once that VW factory is going full tilt I think VW will be able to sell maybe 200,000 Passats a year....
#16769 of 20239 Re: your guess for midsize sales for 2012 [benjaminh]
Apr 08, 2012 (1:10 pm)
Have you seen the new Accord? I saw some pics of the "very close" concept and I was not impressed and the website blogger thought the same. If they don't step up their designs they are going no place. Fusion will be huge I believe and is coming this summer, probably a few months before the new Accord which will give it a head start on the year. Add in the huge fire sale on the 2012 Fusions because of the new model and I don't thing the Accord will surpass it. But I see you have them close which it just may.
#16770 of 20239 Re: your guess for midsize sales for 2012 [benjaminh]
Apr 08, 2012 (3:15 pm)
Nissan is knocking over $3,500 off the sticker price of new 2012 Altimas in my area. That has to be bumping their 2012 sales figures way up.
Well equipped (moon-roof, dual zone climate control, alloys, fog lamps, etc) 2.5 S Altimas with the CVT sticker for over $27k and are advertised at $23,400. That's moving a lot of cars!
#16771 of 20239 Re: your guess for midsize sales for 2012 [m6user]
Apr 08, 2012 (5:21 pm)
m6user: I have not seen those pix of the Accord you mention. Bummer. I like Honda, but design after design has been a big let down for about 4 or 5 years now...
Probably should reverse that....
#16772 of 20239 Re: your guess for midsize sales for 2012 [dodgeman07]
Apr 08, 2012 (5:21 pm)
24k for a loaded Altima....that's a lotta car for the money. But I really like how the 2013s look. I'd wait...
#16774 of 20239 Re: your guess for midsize sales for 2012 [dodgeman07]
Apr 09, 2012 (5:04 am)
dodgeman: Nissan following the old GM and now Chrysler pricing model. MSRP supersized with $5000 rebate/cashback to use the ole deal pitch.
Net transaction price ends up close to similar model with 6-10% off of MSRP. Guess the real way to buy value is net cost vs. features, quality, value and trade in prospects down the road that reflects all the other factors. We have some great car choices for relatively cheap prices. Coupled with our policy of cheap gas to maximize use and sell more cars, we really have it made - for now!