Last post on Dec 09, 2013 at 4:01 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Kia Optima, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#16686 of 20224 Re: 2012 Toyota Camry at LA Auto Show! [m6user]
Nov 18, 2011 (8:53 pm)
Mazda3 Skyactiv has a new powertrain and some little tweaks. That's it. The 2012 Focus OTOH is an all-new design compared to 2011 and could easily claim to have set The Benchmark for the compact class. Much more of a "significant" vehicle in these times when buyers are gravitating to smaller, more fuel efficient cars. And MT claims that their COTY rewards the "most significant" car. There's even the new electric Focus for 2012.
Passat was one of the few new models for 2012 in the mid-sized class. All it had to beat there was the Camry. But not the most significant car overall for 2012 IMO. I'd even pick the Impreza over the Passat--AWD plus fuel efficiency for the first time. That's more significant than a nice mid-sized sedan with styling cues from Audi... and a ten-year-old Chevy. And a nice interior and a smooth ride, but an anemic base powertrain. Nice package. But COTY?
#16687 of 20224 Re: 2012 Toyota Camry at LA Auto Show! [backy]
Nov 19, 2011 (10:50 am)
Agree on the Focus. Actually just skipped my mind(guess I've been reading too much about the Skyactive stuff) but you're right it would have made a lot more sense.
Nov 23, 2011 (2:36 pm)
For me Hybrids are just too expensive to warrant the return. Hybrids are on average $3-$5,000 more than a normally aspirated vehicle. That will buy you a whole lot of gas over the lifetime of the vehicle. Plus, many automakers are pushing these 4cyl engines to reach 40MPG in smaller cars. Another for me is the lifetime of these batteries. What is the cost, both economic and ecological to replace them? I just don't feel it is a smart money choice to buy a Hybrid.
#16689 of 20224 Camry vs Fusion Hybrid
Nov 23, 2011 (2:45 pm)
Did a quick check.
The Fusion Hybrid invoice is $26,370 41/36MPG
Camry invoice $25,208. 43/39MPG
You must look at the options to compare apples to apples. So, there is about a $1,000 advantage to the Camry along with a 2-3MPG advantage.
Now, for yourself. Compare a 4cyl Camry/Fusion in automatic for MPG/cost.
#16690 of 20224 Re: Hybrids [cannon3]
Nov 23, 2011 (7:15 pm)
While I don't disagree with your reasoning (not at ALL actually) some, rationalize the price of (potentially..depending on a person's balance of logic vs conviction) their pacification that purchasers of hybrids gleam when pulling up in front of their local golf club or child's school in their quest to be considered 'green'.
In those same families, you are liable to also find a big block powered gas SUV idling to retain cabin heat or A/C in front of the local convenience store.
#16691 of 20224 Re: Hybrids [samm43]
Nov 23, 2011 (8:12 pm)
their pacification that purchasers of hybrids gleam when pulling up in front of their local golf club or child's school in their quest to be considered 'green'.
You must live in a really different kind of neighborhood than I do. I've never seen anybody driving a hybrid that looked like they were "gleaming" or that appeared to be on a "quest to be considered green". I've got a couple of neighbors down the street that drive Priuses and they seem to be just everyday normal people that are trying to save a buck and really just get a car for transportation only.
Where does this hate crap come from anyway? Does dislike of hybrids by some people automatically extend to the people that drive them for no good reason? It just seems strange.
#16692 of 20224 Cost/point of Hybrids
Nov 27, 2011 (5:04 pm)
I too know a handful of people that own Hybrids. A few have told me their resoning for forking out the extra $3-4,000 is for environmental reasons/pollution reduction reasons. However, when confronted about cost of battery on the environment and battery replacement they don't really have an answer. Battery replacement is still a bit question for me. How will it be recycled? Will it be recycled? How much to replace? Warranty? How many technicians have replaced one? Will there be problems?
Hybrids need to come down in price, at least within $1,000 dollars for me to even think about buying one.
#16693 of 20224 Re: Cost/point of Hybrids [cannon3]
Nov 28, 2011 (6:09 am)
My questions also, good points. Spewing less pollutants but throwing the batteries into a landfill....
#16694 of 20224 Re: Cost/point of Hybrids [kdshapiro]
Nov 28, 2011 (6:23 am)
We recycle all kinds of other batteries. I get paid for old car batteries or sump pump batteries. What would make you think that a large hybrid battery would just get thrown in a landfill? C'mon man.
Priuses have around for 10 years and I haven't read of any large number of failures or replacements. I think most of the hybrid manufacturers have pretty good warranties on the batteries. I'm not ready for a hybrid personally but it isn't because of the tech....it's because of the drive.
#16695 of 20224 Re: Cost/point of Hybrids [m6user]
Nov 28, 2011 (11:29 am)
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=22229 is an article from July about Ford's reliability on the batteries & electric motors in their hybrids. Quotes:
its hybrid fleet having racked up 80 million miles in heavy-duty use
"Out of the 42,629,318 battery cells in use – which are the size of a household D-cell battery -- only five cells have failed. That huge number of cells was used to make 190,000 individual battery packs for hybrid vehicles."
"Ford currently has 380,000 electric motors in the field packed inside those 190,000 hybrids sold so far and out of that number of electric motors not a single one has failed so far. "
So maybe there's not much info on battery harm to the environment because their simply hasn't been anything significant enough to measure so far.