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Midsize Sedans 2.0

18218 messages,  Last post on May 23, 2013 at 3:51 PM

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What is this discussion about? Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Kia Optima, Car Comparisons, Sedan

Messages Page 1619 of 1822

#16181 of 18218 Re: Stylish vs. Boring [backy] by tlong

Jan 15, 2011 (5:01 pm)

Replying to: backy (Jan 15, 2011 3:26 pm)
I don't know where you've been the past decade or so, but VWs haven't been anything special in the styling department for a long time.
 
Actually I thought the second-previous gen VWs were the best in appearance. The current passat looks too much like a Japanese car due to the circles in the taillights, and it wears it worse than the recent Jetta IMHO. VW moved from its best styling IMHO around 2004 or so to a sort of Asian appearance, and now to a bland appearance. That's what I mean by styling. And you add them getting bigger and decontented, and there you go.
 
You can wait to sit in it to decide, but the repair costs, dealer network, and recent reliability issues are NOT changing quickly, so I don't see how this strategy can work, at least not very quickly.

#16182 of 18218 Re: styling [backy] by savetheland

Jan 15, 2011 (6:24 pm)

Replying to: backy (Jan 15, 2011 4:22 pm)
Do you mean that Malibu, G6 and Aura had the same sheet metal and identical interiors? Are you serious or what? People simply hate GM because idiotic management, UAW and etc and were neutral to Hyudai until recently since it was newcomer. In fact Hyudai is no more different than GM - it has idiotic management too, militant unions are similar to UAW and it is largest company in Korea and government will never let it go down. Simply salaries in Korea are half of US so they can build stuff much cheaper. Germans and Americans cannot.

#16183 of 18218 Re: Stylish vs. Boring [tlong] by backy

Jan 15, 2011 (6:29 pm)

Replying to: tlong (Jan 15, 2011 5:01 pm)
What recent reliability issues are you referring to? On their sedans, like Passat and Jetta, or something else?
 
As for repair costs, there's no costs for even maintenance for the first 3 years. I owned 3- and 5-year old VWs and had not one problem with them. Dealers are varied... there's good ones and bad ones, in every brand that sells mid-sized family cars. '
 
And don't forget... it's not just de-contenting; it's de-contenting WITH a huge price reduction (about 25% for the base model). And the de-contented Passat is now comparable with base models from other makes, in equipment and price. Other makes, e.g. Toyota, have de-contented over the years without a decrease in price.

#16184 of 18218 Re: styling [savetheland] by backy

Jan 15, 2011 (6:29 pm)

Replying to: savetheland (Jan 15, 2011 6:24 pm)
I think you are replying to the wrong person?

#16185 of 18218 Re: styling [savetheland] by tlong

Jan 15, 2011 (6:34 pm)

Replying to: savetheland (Jan 15, 2011 6:24 pm)
Do you mean that Malibu, G6 and Aura had the same sheet metal and identical interiors? Are you serious or what? People simply hate GM because idiotic management, UAW and etc and were neutral to Hyudai until recently since it was newcomer. In fact Hyudai is no more different than GM - it has idiotic management too, militant unions are similar to UAW and it is largest company in Korea and government will never let it go down. Simply salaries in Korea are half of US so they can build stuff much cheaper. Germans and Americans cannot.
 
The difference between GM and Hyundai is that due to greater market share, more people were screwed by GM than H; H had about 10 fewer years of crap than GM, and H's recent efforts are more aggressive and producing better results faster than GM's. H didn't brag about cars that "were coming" for four years (like the Volt) before they really existed in the marketplace. H also didn't have public blowhards like Wagoner and Lutz. Also, H didn't require a US government bailout. Those factors probably account for most of the difference in animosity between the two companies.
 
Also, you do realize that most Hyundai's are made in the US? So the labor rates in Korea are not the issue. That's just a smokescreen - the US makes cars competitively for the companies that are not strangled by the UAW.

#16186 of 18218 Re: styling [tlong] by savetheland

Jan 15, 2011 (7:38 pm)

Replying to: tlong (Jan 15, 2011 6:34 pm)
I can also add that GM for years were using outdated technology in US. But they both produced crap, may be GM for longer period of time even though was well established company with long experience of making cars all over the world. Hyudai was in process of learning how to make cars and finally produced some results. Time will show how good new Hyudai cars are. GM still has no clue. Otherwise how it managed to put underpowered engine in near luxury car and instantly become behind competition. We will see how new Malibu will be done. Sonata set new standards and GM cannot afford to tolerate cheap stuff in their cars (like cheap interiors, cheap engines and etc) anymore.
 
But wait until new Ford Mondeo arrives to US - it may reset standards to new level again. It will easily defeat Sonata, Optima and Passat, but may not be as cheap though.

#16187 of 18218 Re: New Pontiac [savetheland] by sandman_6472

Jan 15, 2011 (8:33 pm)

Replying to: savetheland (Jan 15, 2011 3:30 pm)
And how do we know this...? Why do folks use the word "always" to just their opinions? There are only "2 always" that I can think of on the fly...the sun coming up & then the moon within 24 hours. So I'll ask the question again..."and how do we know this"?
 
The Sandman

#16188 of 18218 Spelled Hyundai by sandman_6472

Jan 15, 2011 (8:58 pm)

And it's HYUNDAI, not Hyudai. Not sure if you know this, since you keep spelling it wrong! Just an f y i.
 
The Sandman

#16189 of 18218 Thanks sandman... by iluvmysephia1

Jan 15, 2011 (9:02 pm)

I wasn't gonna post to report it but it was driving me nuts, though!
 
And it's HYUNDAI, not Hyudai. Not sure if you know this, since you keep spelling it wrong! Just an f y i.
 
It's Hyundai, not Hyudai. Pronounced Hun-Day. Oh, I'm just sure we're all in agreement on pronunciation, too.

#16190 of 18218 Re: styling [savetheland] by tlong

Jan 15, 2011 (9:51 pm)

Replying to: savetheland (Jan 15, 2011 7:38 pm)
See, now I will argue (based upon sitting in the new Cruze at the auto show, but not driving it) that GM has made GOOD decisions on this car. I don't know how it drives, but based just upon the looks and the interior I saw (I'm sure the top of the line), this is easily the BEST small car GM has ever made. It looks nice, it's really nice inside. I don't really care if it is a bit underpowered and expensive, it is still a really good change for GM. Instead of high power with cheap bits, they have made a car that is lower power with more expensive bits, and it shows. Assuming reliability is decent, good job GM.

Messages Page 1619 of 1822

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