Last post on May 22, 2013 at 9:36 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Kia Optima, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#16104 of 18204 Re: VW's NMS [acdii]
Jan 10, 2011 (8:29 am)
You kinda missed the point, for a little 4 banger, those numbers are nothing to brag about. The 2.5 4 in the Fusion gets 27 MPG combined. EPA 23/34/27.
I guess I do miss the point, Ford's 4 cyl 2.5 gets about the same mpg as VW 5 cyl 2.5 What's the point again?
According to http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/sbs.htm, the 2011 4 cyl Fusion gets combined 25 or 26 mpg (The 26 mpg is only for the S version, so for most the Fusion is a 25 mpg 4 cyl). The 2011 Jetta is 27 mpg, two mpg better than the majority of 4 cyl Fusions. Even a Focus with a 2.0L at 28 mpg is only 1 mpg better than the Jetta.
From everything I see the VW engine is not out of line with the competition, so I don't understand where your "gas hog" comment is coming from.
I also can reference my own real world, where my wife's Jetta with the 2.5 gets about the same mpg as my Mazda6 with a 2.3L 4 cyl.
#16105 of 18204 looks like VW NMS will still be called Passat
Jan 10, 2011 (8:49 am)
No 2.slow, the base engine is the 2.5 and there is a diesel and VR6
More details apparently just revealed today:
#16106 of 18204 Re: looks like VW NMS will still be called Passat [jeffyscott]
Jan 10, 2011 (9:35 am)
No 2.slow, the base engine is the 2.5 and there is a diesel and VR6
Are we sure the 3.5L is not a VR design?
I noticed the new Passat will start around $20K, so, I take this to mean it will be extemely watered down just like the $16K Jetta.
I really have no idea what VW is trying to do here....
#16107 of 18204 Re: VW's NMS [gimmestdtranny]
Jan 10, 2011 (10:13 am)
Sorry, but I just don't agree with most of what you say. Modern automatics are just fine and it's the rare exception that have a problem. Millions are sold every year and citing a few people that post on line is hardly evidence of a major safety problem.
Think about it, there are millions of people that drive midsize cars and how many post in here regularly?
This conversation about stick vs. auto has come up so many times and the same old weary statements come out again and again. Personally, I'm tired of talking about it. If it is so important to certain people why don't you start a thread "Stick vs. auto" and debate it there to your hearts content. I would be interested to see if it attracted any interest after the first few days because the arguments are just old.
There is a reason that 95% of all vehicles are sold with autos and it isn't because people are stupid or lazy. It's because 95% of the people don't look at driving to work or hauling the kids around as a joy ride or a day at the track. It's called transportation from point a to point b.
So to come in here and consider it your lifes work to convince everyone that they driving a stick is just the cat's meow is, in effect, calling them stupid or lazy.
Jan 10, 2011 (10:34 am)
You are very confused, but I'm not surprised u don't realize it. I am NOT trying to convince anyone to do anything! I am merely pointing out certain deficiencies that are inherit in 'modern even moreso than older' autos. It is not my fault your beloved automatic has these deficiencies. You make it sound like this has been going on for ages, yet automatic indecision to the extent of issues that are surfacing lately, are relatively new! At least the time spent while it processes, is new due to longer processing times when it does get fooled. If your tranny doesn't get fooled the way you drive, or if you have never driven an auto that got confused, well good for you. But that sure doesn't mean just because u have not encountered it, it does not exist. You indicate that perhaps manual lovers have this self-righteous mission to convert everyone, yet you don't see the irony in your defense of the autos?
And you totally ignored my train-hit example! Ok....
That is a shame you are getting tired of the auto vs manual debate when you read car threads. The fact is, it proves how significant the topic is. No matter what thread you go to, you will find chat about the engine and transmission as being influential to the discussion. It's just the way it is, and the fact that it comes up so often, proves that very point. Don't fight it.
#16109 of 18204 Re: VW's NMS [gimmestdtranny]
Jan 10, 2011 (11:08 am)
The fact is, it proves how significant the topic is.
The automotive marketplace (in the USA at least) has already decided how insignificant this topic is. If it were a significant topic, sales of manual-transmission cars would not be the small numbers that they are.
Your examples of the need to get out of the way of a train don't make the topic significant. Most people have already figured out how to stay out of the way of trains: don't get in their way in the first place.
P.S. If it's manual control you need, e.g. you are sitting in an intersection, in gear, and want to move out quickly without fear of the transmission "hunting" for the right gear, keep in mind that almost all of today's mid-sized sedans have manumatic transmissions that allow the driver to select a gear and stay in that gear--but with the convenience of an automatic when manual gear selection is not desired.
#16110 of 18204 Re: VW's NMS [plekto]
Jan 10, 2011 (11:13 am)
I can literally dance around the slugs in the other lanes. I want safeto go, I just simply do it and always shoot past them before they can ever react and deal with the automatic deciding what gear and then responding.
In other words - driving like a maniac. I agree - if you want to dart in and out of traffic like a maniac then a manual is better. For the other 99% of drivers who drive safely I guarantee that transmission response isn't an issue. And don't say you have to drive that way because it's hogwash.
#16111 of 18204 Re: VW's NMS [backy]
Jan 10, 2011 (11:16 am)
This is nothing more than manual transmission enthusiasts trying to rationalize their preference. In the old days it was easy because manuals were cheaper, faster and got better mpg but the new automatics kill those arguments.
I love manuals and if I get a weekend sports car I'll definitely get a manual but not because I need to weave in and out of traffic or beat a train.
Jan 10, 2011 (11:44 am)
I simply can't believe how fixated and judgemental some people are.
I will spell it out for you and backy and jeffy..
I used the train as an example of just how much can go wrong in 1/2 a second. Geeeezzz
I'm not surprised you didn't make that connection though because you also accused me of being a maniac and I made no mention of darting in traffic. So you are generalizing all over the place. I gave a VERY real world left-turn-in-the-middle-of-an-intersection scenario in which timing can be of utmost importance. You will just have to pardon me for wanting to save mine and my family's lives by not lingering around an intersection while I wait for my slowly processing automatic to decide what it is i want it to do.
I could go and find links for many examples of this anomaly in autos, but why should I if you both can't be bothered to see for yourselves? I would waste a lot of time doing that work for you and you will still probably pooh pooh the info. You can lead a horse to water but you still can't make it drink if it refuses to.
I understand though that not everyone cares or can even grasp if they do care, the technological knowledge of a piece of machinery's internal bit's and pros and cons... so with internet being what it is, it is next to impossible to 'teach' someone some new knowledge if they refuse to be taught. What is disappointing though, is that the narrowness of mind and attitude is so self-righteous that there is no room for the thought that, maybe, just maybe....those guys know something we don't.
Furthermore, your comment "For the other 99% of drivers who drive safely I guarantee that transmission response isn't an issue." proves nothing. In fact, everyday there are white-knuckled steering wheel holders who drive in any way BUT aggressively, yet leave destruction and mayhem in their wake everywhere they go. And there is one thing you can take to the bank when picturing them...the VAST majority will all be driving (and i use the term loosely) autos..
#16113 of 18204 Re: VW's NMS [gimmestdtranny]
Jan 10, 2011 (11:39 am)
You do confuse me I have to admit that. The topic comes up often because the same players belabor it time and time again. I'm not fighting it, just expressing my opinion that it bores me. If you don't like my opinion that's your perogative.
I have nothing against sticks and I would probably have one just for grins now that I don't have to commute anymore if my wife didn't object.