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18428 messages,  Last post on Jun 17, 2013 at 6:28 PM

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What is this discussion about? Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Kia Optima, Car Comparisons, Sedan

Messages Page 1537 of 1843

#15359 of 18428 Re: 2011 Mazda6 [baggs32] by aviboy97

Aug 05, 2010 (4:25 pm)

Replying to: baggs32 (Aug 05, 2010 10:09 am)
You make it sound like Ford was holding them back when in fact Mazda would be 6 feet under if not for FMC.
 
By Mazda's own admission back in October 2008, the significant amount of Ford hierarchy in Mazda prevented Mazda from doing what they wanted to do. Mazda Japan and Ford America often bumped heads on product planning. Remember, not too long ago, Ford was slower then molasses when it came to product change....
 
The Mazda6 went 3 years before a refresh, and another 3 years before a new model came out. The Mazda3 went 3 years before a refresh and another 3 years before the new model. That is too long in Mazda's eyes.
 
Each company has helped each other tremendously. Please don't sit there and say Ford did everything. Ford would not have a Fusion if it were not for Mazda's engineering and development.

#15360 of 18428 Re: 2011 Mazda6 [aviboy97] by jeffyscott

Aug 05, 2010 (5:33 pm)

Replying to: aviboy97 (Aug 05, 2010 4:25 pm)
The one change Mazda most needed to make was to wipe the smile off the face of the 3, they didn't.

#15361 of 18428 Re: 2011 Mazda6 [aviboy97] by baggs32

Aug 06, 2010 (9:56 am)

Replying to: aviboy97 (Aug 05, 2010 4:25 pm)
Please don't sit there and say Ford did everything. Ford would not have a Fusion if it were not for Mazda's engineering and development.
 
I didn't say Ford did everything, you did! You said they ruled over Mazda completely when in truth, they didn't. They were partners and shared just about everything which is why Ford bought their controlling share. They needed one another as someone else put it.
 
By the way, the Mazda3 is a Euro Ford Focus if you want to go down that path and the Mazda6 wouldn't have a V6 without Ford. You also solidified my argument in saying what I quoted above. If Ford ruled with such an iron fist then why was Mazda given free reign on the 6 platform and the I4 that went in it and the 3? Seems to me it would have been more important for both manufacturers to spend the time and money on solid new platforms and motors than to spend time and money, that they didn't really have, on more frequent refreshes.
 
I'm still not sure how you see this refresh as anything new either. I had a 2004 6s and several updates were made inside and out by 2005 on the 6 line including new transmissions. This is a 2-year refresh just like the old one had give or take a few months. So what has changed now that Mazda is free of their supposed oppression?
 
If Mazda wants to complain they need to do it elsewhere because FMC saved them from the brink. End of story.

#15362 of 18428 Re: 2011 Mazda6 [baggs32] by aviboy97

Aug 06, 2010 (7:17 pm)

Replying to: baggs32 (Aug 06, 2010 9:56 am)
You said they ruled over Mazda completely when in truth, they didn't.
 
First off, I never said they ruled them completely. For their North American Operations, Ford had a HUGE say in how they conducted business. Second, Ford had a lot of their brass in Mazda North American Operations. That is a FACT. Coming from someone who is associated with Mazda, I would know more then you.
 
By the way, the Mazda3 is a Euro Ford Focus if you want to go down that path and the Mazda6 wouldn't have a V6 without Ford.
 
No, it is not. Common misconception. They only share a platform and basic engine design in which Mazda developed. The Mazda MZR and Ford 2.0-2.5 Duratec motors are Mazda designs. In todays form, they have become more like distant cousins.
 
If Ford ruled with such an iron fist then why was Mazda given free reign on the 6 platform and the I4 that went in it and the 3?
 
Mazda had "free reign"to develop the Mazda6 because Ford at the time did not have a mid-sized vehicle. They had a corporate fleet Ford Taurus. Ford used the Mazda6 platform, electronic design, suspension architecture, I4 engine to build the Fusion. They even have the same ECU! Ford saved $10 billion in development costs when building the 1st gen Fusion. When I toured the Mazda6 factory in Flat Rock, MI, the chief engineer of development on the Mazda6 disclosed this information to us. Would you like his name and contact information? I have him in my Blackberry....
 
Mazda6 wouldn't have a V6 without Ford
 
As part of their partnership, Ford provided the V6 engines and Mazda provided the I4 engines. This is nothing new.
 
I had a 2004 6s and several updates were made inside and out by 2005 on the 6 line including new transmissions
 
03-05 was the first gen Mazda6 and 06-08 was the refresh. 05 was not considered a "re-fresh". There were no body changes, no interior changes and virtually no mechanical changes, other then the 6-speed tranny for V6 models. 06 showed us a new body and several other changes.
 
So what has changed now that Mazda is free of their supposed oppression?
 
You are taking what I said out of context. Mazda has decided to constantly re-fresh and up date their product line starting form their break from Ford. There is a better line of communication between Mazda America and Mazda Japan now that Ford is gone. Oppressed? Mazda was not a slave...lets be real here...
 
If Mazda wants to complain they need to do it elsewhere because FMC saved them from the brink. End of story.
 
What are you talking about?? Who is complaining?? Why are you making thing up??Ford did a lot for Mazda, and visa versa. I will never deny that, nor will Mazda or Ford.I am not disputing what Ford has done for Mazda and I never will. Ford gave then the financial stability to grow into the company they have today.
 
Fact of the matter is, Ford had much more say in the daily operations of Mazda then you think they did. Even tough they were "business partners", Ford had a little leverage. This was always something that bugged Mazda. For the first time since the early 90's, Mazda can do what they want, when they want, without Ford having to approve. That is the point of my message. It is the truth Being associated with Mazda for many years, I have first hand knowledge of their relationship. Just because you can "google" Mazda and Ford or you own a Mazda6 does not mean you know how they are intertwined. Working for the company and having interactions with Mazda and Ford brass gives me access to info you can't find on Google.

#15363 of 18428 Re: 2011 Mazda6 [aviboy97] by tlong

Aug 06, 2010 (7:14 pm)

Replying to: aviboy97 (Aug 06, 2010 7:17 pm)
Mazda had the original MPV back in the late '80's and I believe it had a 6 cyl. Was that a Ford engine?

#15364 of 18428 Re: 2011 Mazda6 [tlong] by aviboy97

Aug 06, 2010 (7:23 pm)

Replying to: tlong (Aug 06, 2010 7:14 pm)
Mazda had the original MPV back in the late '80's and I believe it had a 6 cyl. Was that a Ford engine?
 
The first Mazda MPV was 1990 I believe, or 89, I can't remember. Mazda used a 2.5L V6, which was a Mazda engine. Mazda used a Ford 2.5L in 1999 when they made the body change, and upgraded to the 3.0L in 2002 or 2003

#15365 of 18428 Re: 2011 Mazda6 [aviboy97] by tlong

Aug 06, 2010 (7:27 pm)

Replying to: aviboy97 (Aug 06, 2010 7:23 pm)
So if Mazda had their own v6, what ever happened to it? Was it just not competitive? And so does the current Mazda 6 have a Ford engine?

#15366 of 18428 Re: 2011 Mazda6 [tlong] by aviboy97

Aug 06, 2010 (7:43 pm)

Replying to: tlong (Aug 06, 2010 7:27 pm)
So if Mazda had their own v6, what ever happened to it? Was it just not competitive? And so does the current Mazda 6 have a Ford engine?
 
I was not with Mazda back in the late 90's. I do believe this is the time that Ford took controlling interest in Mazda to 33%. It had previously been 25%, I believe.
 
I honestly do not know why the Ford sourced V6 was introduced into the Mazda. Again, I was not with the company back then.
 
The current Mazda6 and CX-9 use a Ford designed 3.7L V6. Mazda does build this unit themselves in Japan and they tune it differently then Ford does.

#15367 of 18428 Re: 2011 Mazda6 [aviboy97] by lehrer1

Aug 06, 2010 (7:55 pm)

Replying to: aviboy97 (Aug 06, 2010 7:17 pm)
Dear aviboy97,
I bought Fusion 2010 SE with V6 3.0 engine and am happy with it. I wander if V6 3.5 is any better or more modern? Does it have any advantage apart from slightly higher torque and HP?
Best regards, Lehrer1

#15368 of 18428 Re: 2011 Mazda6 [aviboy97] by backy

Aug 06, 2010 (8:32 pm)

Replying to: aviboy97 (Aug 06, 2010 7:23 pm)
The original MPV used a 3.0L Mazda V6, also for awhile a 2.5L I4.

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