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Midsize Sedans 2.0

18198 messages,  Last post on May 21, 2013 at 5:27 PM

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What is this discussion about? Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Kia Optima, Car Comparisons, Sedan

Messages Page 1494 of 1820

#14929 of 18198 Re: I'm still procrastinating! [dash5] by acdii

Apr 27, 2010 (6:31 am)

Replying to: dash5 (Apr 27, 2010 6:11 am)
When it is released, and has a record, then lets see if it truly gets what Hyundai claims. I have the Flex with Ecoboost, it doesn't get what Ford claims in FE. One of the problems is, you MUST drive it granny style, to meet EPA, if not, you just don't get the ratings. So lets wait and see what the Turbo 4 gets in the real world, when it gets released. Both engines in the Flex get the same EPA ratings, both get similar real world economy, both are under EPA. The 2011 is still too new to get real world numbers in FE, so we will need to wait for both before we will know for sure about the numbers.
 
At least with the Ford Fusion, the 4 is getting EPA in the 30's, and that is right about what people are seeing. The V6 is also getting right about what the EPA ratings are, so with any luck, so will Hyundai.

#14930 of 18198 Re: I'm still procrastinating! [greatlakesjr] by fushigi

Apr 27, 2010 (6:36 am)

Replying to: greatlakesjr (Apr 26, 2010 10:54 am)
That's what I don't get...how does Hyundai fit all that space in the Sonata (and the trunk, which is huge) and still get the stellar MPG?
 
Most of that space is just that .. space. Air doesn't weigh much so making a large cabin does not necessarily carry a huge weight penalty; just the added weight from an extra inch or two of materials for length and maybe height. I've talked to limo drivers and they've said that other than a lengthened drive shaft that the limos have not needed beefed up powertrains to deal with the added size since most of it's empty interior space; there isn't that much added weight.
 
No V6 cuts weight, which also helps, but comparing to other 4-bangers I'd say the difference is our buddy Al. Aluminum weighs less than steel and I bet if you examined a Sonata from front to back you'd find the use or more aluminum and other lightweight materials. I doubt there's a magic bullet, just judicious trimming of a few ounces here and a pound there that added up to a large-yet-light car.
 
Look at the tricks they do on race/sports cars like drilling holes in the gas & brake pedals to shave ounces. There's no reason those tricks can't be applied to appliance sedans; it just takes the engineering discipline and manufacturing lines to support it. Prior to CAFE shooting skyward there was nothing to drive the manufacturers to make the attempt.

#14931 of 18198 Re: I'm still procrastinating! [acdii] by thegraduate

Apr 27, 2010 (6:43 am)

Replying to: acdii (Apr 27, 2010 6:31 am)
One of the problems is, you MUST drive it granny style, to meet EPA, if not, you just don't get the ratings
 
True for any car. If I dig into the throttle and kick my iVtec 2.4L to high-revs often my MPG drops of rapidly. If you ride the torque down-low though you keep things running more efficiently. My Honda has a modest torque peak (160lb-ft at 4,000 RPM) but it's very flexible. I'd love to see a dyno run of the Honda K24 engine in my '06 Accord.

#14932 of 18198 Re: 2011 Hyundai Sonata Coupe... Why? [mz6greyghost] by mickeyrom

Apr 27, 2010 (7:13 am)

Replying to: mz6greyghost (Apr 27, 2010 5:06 am)
Elantra Touring

#14933 of 18198 Re: I'm still procrastinating! [thegraduate] by acdii

Apr 27, 2010 (7:54 am)

Replying to: thegraduate (Apr 27, 2010 6:43 am)
Not necessarily, I can mash the gas on my Fusion Sport, and still get respectable FE, but mash the gas on the Flex, and it shows. The turbos can really chew into the FE when put to use, so you have to drive it lighter than the non turbo engine if you want to get decent numbers. Anytime the turbos spool up, you can bet there is a good amount of fuel being used, so the less you use it, the better the FE. Then again, those who buy it(like me) aren't looking for FE, but kickass performance.

#14934 of 18198 Re: I'm still procrastinating! [acdii] by avucarguy

Apr 27, 2010 (9:12 am)

Replying to: acdii (Apr 27, 2010 7:54 am)
I agree with you on that. In my younger years I used to own an 86 Subaru XT turbo which I drive aggressively. The fuel economy is poor when you keep the turbo charger working regularly. I am sure Hyundai's new turbo charged engine is much better, but FE will not be as advertised if you have fun with it.

#14935 of 18198 Re: 2011 Hyundai Sonata Coupe... Why? [mz6greyghost] by jeffyscott

Apr 27, 2010 (3:35 pm)

Replying to: mz6greyghost (Apr 27, 2010 5:06 am)
I had no idea the Altima was even available as a coupe.

#14936 of 18198 Test Drove two Sonata SE models today... by maxamillion85

Apr 27, 2010 (9:32 pm)

...came away absolutely impressed.
  
The cars were Pacific Blue with Gray cloth/leather interior with the hard to find Sunroof/Navigation Pkg and Indigo Blue/Gray without the nav/sunroof pkg.
 
Exterior: Beautiful, from the color to the 18 inch wheels the Sonata in SE trim in Pacific Blue Pearl looks excellent. I like how the color changes depending on the lighting. We've gotten rain off and on all day in my area (Upstate, SC) so depending on the angle and where the car was parked it looked green sometimes and at other times it looked dark blue. In direct sunlight its a nice dark blue-green. It's my favorite of all the colors for the new Sonata...Harbor Gray is a close second, though I'm eager to see how the Limited Trim will look in Plum and Camel. The 18s on the Sonata really bring out the look and make the car look more proportioned IMO. The 17s on the Limited are OK but smallish, I prefer the design of the 16s available on the GLS models over the Limited wheels honestly. On the website I figured I'd prefer the Indigo Blue Pearl to the Pacific Blue Pearl but in person I think the IBP is too bright of a blue for a car of the Sonata's class. Just not my cup of tea.
  
Interior: Navigation system is really nice, though I'll admit I've never really played with one. I like the push button start, the gauge cluster is real nice and futuristic and the center stack has a nice design. Some of the interior materials were hard to the touch and felt lower grade than the 2009-2010 model years but overall the interior is on par with the Accord and better than everything else in the class...this includes Fusion, Malibu, Camry, Mazda6 and Altima. Front room was pretty good (I'm only 5 feet 9) and rear seat room was good too, only problem I really had was getting in and out of the back seat. The sharp cutlines in the design of the roof can make ingress and egress a challenge for folks taller than myself. The Cloth seats inside the model I drove were "gray" and I wasn't particularly crazy about them but they weren't bad. The fabric felt a bit coarse though. I really wish the "Camel" interior was available on SE models because I prefer the Camel to any other interior color (especially WINE)
  
The Drive: I drove the IBP one first but it had a minor steering issue. Upon take off out of the dealership the car had this lumpy-thumpy feel to the steering. I told the salesmen about it and we took it back to the dealership. He could feel it himself. I'm thinking the tires were overinflated or something. I wanted to drive the Pacific Blue one first but the sales manager couldn't find the keys so we took the IBP one out instead. By the time we got back to the dealership the salesmen finally got the keys to the PBP one and I took it out for a spin. No steering/lumping problems with this model and the power was impressive. Really good take off in traffic, really good pick up power on the interstate and it felt more powerful than my 05 Altima. I'd driven a Silver Limited a month or two ago and the power of all three seemed to be comparable. I didn't expect a difference in power but I did notice that the SE model has sharper and firmer steering, which I really liked. The Limited Model I drove felt more Camryish that I had liked. I also felt a bit of torque steer in the SE model that I had not noticed in the Limited. The test drive was done on some patched up roads in the area and the Sonata handled them nicely. It definitely rides, handles and has better power than the 09-10 Sonata I4, which I felt was underpowered and sloppy handling-wise. The Sonata SE feels more Honda Accord than Toyota Camry this go round.
  
The Price:I've noticed Hyundai's steady increase in pricing over the last couple of years but I was a bit shocked at first when I saw the Price of the PB Sonata SE with the Sunroof/Nav. But when you look at the long list of standard and optional equipment on the car it didn't seem so bad. Navigation, push button start, iPod Cable, leather/cloth seats, power sunroof, 18 inch alloy wheels. I priced out similar competition. Malibu, Accord, Camry and Altima all come within a few Hundred bucks give or take for similar equipment (though none of them can be had with the Sonata SE's Navigation System or 18 inch wheels) I guess I'd just become accustomed to the Sonata undercutting them in price. Salesmen tried to get me to buy, but I'm holding out until the Turbo model (and the Kia Optima) are available...unless my jalopy 05 Altima falls apart (and it probably will.) Overall I came away impressed by the car, I got to spend a lot of time in various models while at Atlanta and NYC's autoshows and the car is really impressive for the class. From the power, feature content to the looks. It's a really nice car and if not for me wanting the Turbo model, I would have haggled on the price of the SE.
The Price of a Sonata SE with Nav/Sunroof pkg is comparable to the Price of a Sonata Limited without Nav. Too bad you can't get a Sonata SE with Sunroof and without Navigation. I noticed some GLS models have the Limited's 17 inch wheels. Hyundai is offering a "Spring Event Upgrade" pkg on GLS models with the PEP pkg that gives you the wheels, mats and I think the ipod cable for a whopping $100 MSRP! Not bad.Funny how just six years ago when I got my 05 Altima I would have never considered a Hyundai, now the new Sonata is at the top of my list and I won't even consider the current Altima. Honda, Nissan and Toyota need keep an eye on the new Sonata, it really shows how complacent all three manufacturers have become (especially Honda)

#14937 of 18198 Re: Test Drove two Sonata SE models today... [maxamillion85] by mz6greyghost

Apr 28, 2010 (4:44 am)

Replying to: maxamillion85 (Apr 27, 2010 9:32 pm)
Excellent write up.
 
Too bad you can't get a Sonata SE with Sunroof and without Navigation.
 
IMO, this is the dumbest move that Hyundai pulled. Why should I be saddled with a softly-sprung Limited in order to get a sunroof without a $$$$-wasting Nav system?

#14938 of 18198 Re: Test Drove two Sonata SE models today... [mz6greyghost] by backy

Apr 28, 2010 (7:57 am)

Replying to: mz6greyghost (Apr 28, 2010 4:44 am)
Hyundai made adjustments to the Sonata equipment packaging after the Gen 4 debuted in 2005 (e.g. made power seat much easier to get after the 2006 MY), and I expect some tweaking in option packages will occur in the not too distant future--including better availability of moonroof on GLS and SE.

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