Last post on Dec 10, 2013 at 5:02 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Kia Optima, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#13259 of 20239 Re: Pricing [backy]
Nov 28, 2009 (4:52 pm)
Your argument is correct if going by published prices, even invoice, and published rebates/incentives but falls apart when actual street prices are used. Toyota, Honda and VW usually, don't offer dealer discounts nearly as deep as Hyundai/Mazda/Ford/Chev etc. so street prices are still quite a bit less.
In Chicago, Sonatas are routinely sold for about $2000 to $3000 less than a comparable Camcord. May be a little closer in Minny but I'm sure it's similar.
#13260 of 20239 Re: No V6 in the '11 Sonata? [wayne21]
Nov 28, 2009 (4:59 pm)
Are they going with fleet sales because they didn't learn from GM/Ford or do they not care who they sell to just so long as the increase their numbers?
Talking about Hyundai/Kia above. Something to consider----Could Hyundai be trying to get more people into their cars as a form of advertisement? A lot of people bash or ignore Hyundais but have never driven one. Since their resale value is already quite crappy, maybe they figure that a short term burst in rental fleets may give people the chance to try them or at least give the perception that they are more mainstream. Just a thought but they seem to have been doing a lot of things right lately so I tend not to condemn their actions so quickly.
#13261 of 20239 Re: No V6 in the '11 Sonata? [kdhspyder]
Nov 28, 2009 (5:03 pm)
Which is precisely why the Chairman has to step up and state that he's not at all satisfied with the company...
Toyota's Chairman really laid it on the line in that speech. It sounded like a profuse apology to Toyota faithful around the world because it was.....
One of Toyota's problems, other than Japanese issues in general which are significant also, is they have grown so big it becomes difficult to change course with any speed. Like an aircraft carrier trying to turn, they have been slow to respond. They opened the door and many companies, most notably Hyundai, stepped up their game.
I credit Toyota for maintaining huge dollars in retained earnings to weather this storm. The will prosper in the future by pandering to the masses but need to inject some excitement in the brand that has been lacking for years. They also need to work with their North American dealers who have run off many customers with "We're the Best!" attitudes.
#13262 of 20239 Re: Pricing [m6user]
Nov 28, 2009 (5:11 pm)
Actually, using "street" lease prices, Camrys and Accords are some of the lowest-priced mid-sizers out there, along with the Altima and Mazda6, which have attractive lease deals right now. Note I didn't mention VW in my earlier post--their new-car prices are significantly higher, e.g. for the Passat, than for most other mid-sized family sedans.
From what I've noticed, Toyota offers some pretty big "hidden" incentives, as does Honda. For example, I see in the Edmunds Prices Paid discussion Hondas purchased around the country for well below invoice. Yet there are no published incentives/rebates. So there must be hidden money to the dealers there someplace.
From what I've seen lately, the going price for a Sonata GLS AT in the Twin Cities is around $18k with the general rebate of $1000, and less when other rebates like military rebate are applied. That isn't much less than what I see Camrys going for. For Accords, it's harder to tell, as I mentioned Honda dealers advertise only lease rates in my area. Interesting that Honda dealers advertise their prices in Chicago, while they don't do it 500 miles away in the Twin Cities. I would suspect collusion amongst the Twin Cities Honda dealers, but that's illegal so that can't be the reason.
#13263 of 20239 Re: Pricing [backy]
Nov 28, 2009 (6:01 pm)
You'll love this then... in one certain region no Toyota dealer has advertised any new car price in nearly 4 years!! Ditto Honda. The dealers don't fight in the paper or on the radio. You'd be surprised what that does for transaction prices.
#13264 of 20239 Re: Pricing [kdhspyder]
Nov 28, 2009 (6:53 pm)
You'll love this then... in one certain region no Toyota dealer has advertised any new car price in nearly 4 years!!
Gee, are you going to let us in on the secret region?
#13265 of 20239 Re: Pricing [backy]
Nov 28, 2009 (7:07 pm)
Camry and Accord lease prices are cheaper because they can use a higher residual because of less depreciation. This is very tempting to people that are on the "monthly rental plan".
I've seen deals on the Accord and Camry prices as well but usually at end of year and before new and improved versions hit the showrooms. I spent a lot of time in Minny the last two years and watched the car prices in the papers. I noticed that a lot of dealers up there put in "from" or "starting at" and a price. Not too many Chicago dealers do that. They might only have one of something but they advertise the actual selling price. Anyway, Sonata GLS AT are usually going for about $16500 here and Camry LE AT are going for about $18500. That's day in day out. Add in a situation where redesigns are involved and I think you would see even a wider spread between the Sonata and the Camry.
Honda dealers list lease prices only about 80% of the time down here . About the only prices you see will be base Civic or base Accord prices and maybe an Odyssey once in awhile. However, there are a couple of dealers that will use lease prices on about 4 advertised models and then throw in a Civic DX manual for a low ball price. I highly doubt that car would be available when you get to the dealer though. "Gee, it's been sold already even though it's only 9am on the day of the ad and you're the first one through the door".
Nov 28, 2009 (7:46 pm)
In the comparison the base price looks right, very close, but an important
thing is, what equipment comes standard in that base model. If you only
want base model features thats fine. But if your not attached to 1 brand and
are looking for a better value for your money, compare apples to apples.
I'll use this as an example, several months ago (after much research) I
bought a new 2009 Sonata, in side by side comparison w/ cars like Accord,
Camry, Altima etc. the Sonata had a longer list of standard equipment,
some of those standard features were add on's for the compeditors "price
jumped up considerably". At that time Hyundai had a $3000. factory rebate
and the dealership I went to added $2000. incentive to it. I went to a Toyota
dealership just down the road and looked at a Camry, had to step up level
of trim to get about the same features, (big price increase) they only offered
a $500. rebate. The sales manager said they didn't need to give a rebate
that someone would buy it anyway.I told him that would,t be me. Went back
to Hyundai, told them I had looked at a Camry they knocked another $500. off
for the Toyota rebate. Now who wants to sell cars? The warranty was the
Toyota US car sales for 2009 dropped 24%
Hyundai USA car sales for 2009 went up 5.8%
Yes; Toyota cars out sell the rest "BUT" the gap seems to be closing. All the
ratings have shown the quality and dependability of the Camry has made it
drop in the standings lately. Is that over sight or were they napping or do
they even care. "If we make it they will buy it" attitude don't work for me!
I still like Toyotas but not nearly as much anymore.
#13267 of 20239 Re: Pricing [8babies1dog]
Nov 28, 2009 (8:29 pm)
Notice the general Sonata rebate is only $1000 now. It was $750 on the Camry a few weeks ago, but is down to $500 now. Also, the price on the Sonata is up significantly in the past 3 years. A 2007 GLS with PEP and mats was just under $19,500. But now it's almost $2000 more, $21,370. A comparable Camry LE is $22,650 but has a few features not on the GLS such as telescopic wheel and 6-speed AT. I won't be surprised to see Sonata prices up significantly when the 2011s come out. I think the reduction in rebate to $1000 is a way to prepare buyers for higher prices. I do think we'll see a surge in rebates on the Sonatas as the old design is closed out early next year, so if someone is looking for a deal on a Sonata, that will be a good time.
#13268 of 20239 Re: Pricing [kdhspyder]
Nov 28, 2009 (8:32 pm)
The dealers in this secret region are kidding themselves if they think they are keeping pricing out of the hands of the buying public. Most everyone has Internet access these days, and knows how to use it to find real-world pricing info such as at Edmunds.com and other sites.