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Midsize Sedans 2.0

18177 messages,  Last post on May 20, 2013 at 9:28 AM

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What is this discussion about? Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Kia Optima, Car Comparisons, Sedan

Messages Page 1304 of 1819

#13022 of 18177 Re: 2010 Accord, er, Legacy sighted [backy] by lilengineerboy

Oct 04, 2009 (2:00 pm)

Replying to: backy (Oct 04, 2009 1:25 pm)
As for Ford's SUVs, yes, the Outback is now more directly against the Edge than it was before. Honda has nothing directly comparable to the Outback. The CR-V competes with the Forester, and the Pilot is an 8-passenger SUV.
 
How different are these in real life? You don't think people who look at an Outback would cross shop the CRV, or the Pilot or Odyssey for that matter?
 
Anyway... how many Passat wagons does VW sell in a year? Maybe one reason Subaru went to a SUV design for the new Outback is that they found that not many folks wanted an AWD station wagon.
 
How many do they have to sell? How big is the market?
 
If they are going to buy a vehicle of that size, why not get something taller, with more cargo capacity?
 
Of what size? If its bigger, its not the same size. And from the specs, the vehicle is taller for ground clearance, not that much taller inside. If I wanted something "taller" I would go for the Mazda5 or upcoming Grand C-max thing. Its too bad Honda did the "hatchback" with the Accord and not the wagon.
 
I don't know, as an owner of an '05 Legacy wagon that we love, I think the new Outback is a miss for me.

#13023 of 18177 Re: 2010 Accord, er, Legacy sighted [lilengineerboy] by backy

Oct 04, 2009 (2:39 pm)

Replying to: lilengineerboy (Oct 04, 2009 2:00 pm)
How different are these in real life? You don't think people who look at an Outback would cross shop the CRV, or the Pilot or Odyssey for that matter?
 
Someone looking at the Outback would most likely NOT cross-shop the CR-V, which is much smaller. (If there were looking at the Forester, then yes the CR-V would be a natural comparo.) It's possible folks looking for an Outback might cross-shop the Pilot, but more likely would cross-shop other five-seat crossover SUVs like the Edge and Equinox. Someone looking for more seating would logically cross-shop the Pilot, Traverse/Acadia/Enclave, and other 7+ seat crossover SUVs. I really don't think someone shopping for an Outback would cross-shop a FWD minivan like the Odyssey. Could it happen? Sure, there's always an exception. But the Outback and minivans like the Ody are much different kinds of vehicles.
 
How many do they have to sell? How big is the market?
 
Exactly. Apparently not as big as the market for SUV-type crossovers. I expect Subaru and other automakers have studied the market pretty closely. How many AWD station wagons starting in the $20s are there?

Of what size? If its bigger, its not the same size.
 
I meant longer, of course.
 
The Mazda5 is not available in AWD, is it? If someone wants something in AWD that's REALLY tall, they could go for a big SUV like the Travcadiclave or an AWD minivan like the Sienna (actually I think that's the only AWD minivan left).
 
Better save your money for an A6, I guess.

#13024 of 18177 Re: 2010 Accord, er, Legacy sighted [backy] by lilengineerboy

Oct 04, 2009 (3:00 pm)

Replying to: backy (Oct 04, 2009 2:39 pm)
How many AWD station wagons starting in the $20s are there?
 
That's exactly my point, now there is none. This used to be a market that Subaru owned. Now they are up against the Ford, Honda, Toyota, and GM, all that have equivalent options from a shopper's view point. I might get hit by lightning for saying this but what does the Outback have over a Venza? Or an Edge?
 
Oh, I found a big one...they kept the 6 speed manual on the base model. But that probably isn't a big plus to most, and they still have to get past the Subaru "styling."

#13025 of 18177 Re: 2010 Accord, er, Legacy sighted [lilengineerboy] by backy

Oct 04, 2009 (3:40 pm)

Replying to: lilengineerboy (Oct 04, 2009 3:00 pm)
What does the Outback have over the Venza? Heck of a lot better looking, for one! I haven't seen a snout as ugly as the Venza's since the Aztec (well, the original Tribeca was close). And more "rugged" looking than the smooth (read boring) Edge. And, above all else... "it's a Subaru."
 
I'm not quite sure what your complaint is, though. You said the new Outback isn't any "taller" than the old one, except for ground clearance. So I take it you just don't like how Subaru penned the new Outback?

#13026 of 18177 Re: 2010 Accord, er, Legacy sighted [backy] by jpp5862

Oct 04, 2009 (4:02 pm)

Replying to: backy (Oct 04, 2009 11:20 am)
There was a new Outback behind me on the interstate today, and until it passed me I thought it was a Forester. I can't decide if I liked it or not, but it was a really cool green color.

#13027 of 18177 Re: 2010 Accord, er, Legacy sighted [lilengineerboy] by m6user

Oct 04, 2009 (5:48 pm)

Replying to: lilengineerboy (Oct 04, 2009 3:00 pm)
That's exactly my point, now there is none. This used to be a market that Subaru owned. Now they are up against the Ford, Honda, Toyota, and GM, all that have equivalent options from a shopper's view point.
 
I'm sure Subaru was smart enough to know that they owned that particular (read small) market. They obviously thought it was better to have a small piece of a big pie rather than the whole mini pie. They have an all-wheel drive system that is very respected along with a good record of dependability. If they can get their styling down and their mpg up so that people that don't live in snow states will buy they might be able to get an even bigger piece of that large pie.

#13028 of 18177 Re: 2010 Accord, er, Legacy sighted [m6user] by lilengineerboy

Oct 04, 2009 (5:59 pm)

Replying to: m6user (Oct 04, 2009 5:48 pm)
I'm sure Subaru was smart enough to know that they owned that particular (read small) market. They obviously thought it was better to have a small piece of a big pie rather than the whole mini pie.
 
Fair enough. I realize as a vote of 1 I don't reflect the market as a whole, but big clunky jacked up station wagons don't do it for me. Something that has a low center of gravity, is fun to drive, and has a reasonable amount of power is more appealing. I enjoy driving (as terrible of a thing that is to say in this "eco-state,") and if its not fun, I am not that interested.
 
They have an all-wheel drive system that is very respected along with a good record of dependability.
 
While I do like the performance of their AWD, their engines are on the harsher side, especially for the amount of power they produce. Its part of being a flat-4 and I don't mind it personally, but going up against the sewing machines in Hondas and Toyotas, they might need some work.
 
If they can get their styling down and their mpg up so that people that don't live in snow states will buy they might be able to get an even bigger piece of that large pie.
 
People in non-snow states don't want AWD. Yes the WRX is AWD but that is a different, equally "particular" market. If Subaru offers FWD only, their mileage will go up, and they will have funny looking coarse feeling cars that have nothing to differentiate them from other alternatives.
 
Trying to be all things to all people when you have a niche market is a bad strategy. Being profitable and able to charge a premium because your product is desirable enough to command it is a good strategy. BMW (a niche market specialty product that commands a premium and people pay it) vs Toyota (a commodity product with very little to differentiate it in the market).

#13029 of 18177 Re: 2010 Accord, er, Legacy sighted [lilengineerboy] by m6user

Oct 04, 2009 (6:23 pm)

Replying to: lilengineerboy (Oct 04, 2009 5:59 pm)
People in non-snow states don't want AWD. Yes the WRX is AWD but that is a different, equally "particular" market.
 
Aren't there Subaru dealerships in Texas, Florida and other southern states as well as California? I'm sure some people want them and I'm sure they aren't just selling WRXs. That's like saying nobody in a snow state wants rearwheel drive. There's always a market....albeit small.
It will be interesting to see if Subaru steps on it's foot by leaning towards the masses with the Outback. I say leaning as I still think the Outback looks fairly distinctively "Subbie" and different from other similar size crossovers.

#13030 of 18177 Re: Venza/Legacy Exterior Design by thegraduate

Oct 04, 2009 (6:55 pm)

Replying to: backy (Oct 04, 2009 3:40 pm)

 

 
They both have their awkward angles, but the Venza lacks the angry grin of the Subaru and has cleaner details, making it the more attractive design to my eyes.

#13031 of 18177 Re: Venza/Legacy Exterior Design [thegraduate] by backy

Oct 04, 2009 (8:11 pm)

Replying to: thegraduate (Oct 04, 2009 6:55 pm)
I don't mind the styling of the Venza overall, just the grille. I don't like grilles with lots of chrome. Makes it look like something from a Buck Rogers movie.
 
(Also your link to the photo of the Outback appears to be broken.)

Messages Page 1304 of 1819

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