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Midsize Sedans 2.0

13225 messages,  Last post on Nov 26, 2009 at 4:51 AM

You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens

What is this discussion about? Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Saturn Aura, Car Comparisons, Sedan


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#12768 of 13225
Re: midsize [sporin71] by mickeyrom
Jul 23, 2009 (7:26 am)
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Replying to: sporin71 (Jul 08, 2009 7:26 am)

How anyone can dismiss a Sonata out of hand,just baffles me.Have you owned one?(I don't have one,but leased one in the past)
#12769 of 13225
Why is the Optima not on this list? by mickeyrom
Jul 23, 2009 (7:28 am)
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I was told it was because it has it's own forum,but don't all of these cars too?
#12770 of 13225
Re: Why is the Optima not on this list? [mickeyrom] by pat HOST
Jul 23, 2009 (7:41 am)
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Replying to: mickeyrom (Jul 23, 2009 7:28 am)

We cannot list anymore than 9 cars here. Sorry 'bout that, but that's how it has always been.
#12771 of 13225
Re: Tire decision help [m6user] by imidazol97
Jul 23, 2009 (8:06 am)
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Replying to: m6user (Jul 22, 2009 7:42 pm)

>I'm amazed at how the nitrogen stays in the tire. I personally didn't think it was that big of deal and Costco includes the nitrogen "no-charge". Before I considered it somewhat gimmicky and wouldn't have paid $20 or $30 to have it put in. But now that I've had it for almost a year I'm pretty sold on it. I heard it keeps your tires cooler on long runs too which is easier on your tires but I don't know if that has been absolutely proven or not.
 
I hope people don't really believe nitrogen is able to do all these magical things.
 
Since the atmosphere we're breathing is 80% nitrogen, the nitrogen allegedly put in is responsible for great improvements based only on a 20% differential. consider that the machines that separate the nitrogen are not perfect, the air pumped into your tire may only be 90% nitrogen--read the disclaimers on the company's sites selling the nitrogen separators as "money-making machines" to tire stores.
 
Also the use of nitrogen rich air was primarily a benefit to truck tires where the carcas is used for 100s of thousands of miles with recapping. I don't know anyone running their auto tires that long.
 
If your tires go a long time without needing air: it's because the seal at the rim is good, the inner liner of the tire is a high quality sealer, and because the enviromental temperature went up from the original fill till the time you're measuring pressure now. (Pressure increases approximately 1 pound/10 deg Fahrenheit increase in temp.)
 
As for keeping tires cooler, does anyone thing the heat transfer difference between 80% nitrogen/oxygen/CO2 and 95% nitrogen is noticeably different? Plus where does the heat get transferred to? Most heat will go out of the tire through the rubber to the atmosphere--not through the air within the tire to the rim. Most flexing occurs in the thick rubber layer with steel/polyester/nylon layers called the tread. The thinner sidewalls are designed to flex and produce less heat doing so.
 
If the tire store actually used a 100% nitrogen tank souce like a hospital uses, then the claims might be considered; but they use a separator in the store which deteriorates in efficiency as used.
 
The claims in some of the websites for sellers of nitrogen separators is faulty. Sometimes they trip on themselves claiming one thing in one paragraph as a benefit and the opposite somewhere else as a benefit. I found that when I spent some time last fall browsing sites. http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2009/06/23/466920.html
#12772 of 13225
Re: Tire decision help [acdii] by bwia
Jul 23, 2009 (8:28 am)
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Replying to: acdii (Jul 23, 2009 6:59 am)

Since this is a new line of tires, find out if they are a brand new design, or if they are a redesign of an existing tire, and if a redesign, base the decision off of the reports on the tires it replaced. Also check the ABC and wear ratings, those are actually pretty reliable.
 
acdii, the Advantage T/A is a brand new design and everywhere I've checked they say "no reviews yet". By the way, the tire is for my Toyota Avalon and I am a moderate driver who prefer driving comfort and quiet over spirited driving.
#12773 of 13225
Re: Tire decision help [imidazol97] by m6user
Jul 23, 2009 (8:57 am)
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Replying to: imidazol97 (Jul 23, 2009 8:06 am)

Appreciate the science lesson but have read all those things before. After driving for 40 years and having hundreds of different tires all I can say that I have never had occassion to go anywhere near this long(9 months) without having to add air to the tires. Maybe it is a great tire/great seal more than the nitrogen, I don't really know. It may be just a coincidence that this happened with full nitrogen. My Tundra with Goodrich and the nitrogen has also not needed air added for about 6 months so I guess those must be a great tire/great seal as well. I do check the air pressure fairly often so air temperture really isn't a player.
 
I have a 07 Mazda6 as well with plain air and have added air to those tires a couple of times a year since new. Usually about 4-5 low when I add. Those are Michelins. I added air to the two vehicles "in question" when they were running the OEM tires quite often as well. So you can see the pleasant surprise I had with the nitrogen. If in fact as you say the nitrogen doesn't add anything to the equation, they should pay the Costco tire installers more for doing such a great job.
#12774 of 13225
Re: Why is the Optima not on this list? [pat] by backy
Jul 23, 2009 (9:22 am)
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Replying to: pat (Jul 23, 2009 7:41 am)

Well, pretty soon we may have a slot open up (Aura). Then cars like the Legacy and Optima can duke it out over the open slot.
#12775 of 13225
Re: Why is the Optima not on this list? [backy] by ergsum
Jul 23, 2009 (10:15 am)
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Replying to: backy (Jul 23, 2009 9:22 am)

Backy, you always see the silver lining!
#12776 of 13225
Re: Tire decision help [imidazol97] by mickeyrom
Jul 23, 2009 (10:22 am)
Reply

Replying to: imidazol97 (Jul 23, 2009 8:06 am)

Since I have filled my tires with nitrogen,I have had no loss of pressure.That is a fact in my case.
#12777 of 13225
Re: Why is the Optima not on this list? [pat] by mickeyrom
Jul 23, 2009 (10:24 am)
Reply

Replying to: pat (Jul 23, 2009 7:41 am)

I feel like my car is the victim of prejudice

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