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Sedans Midsize Sedans 2.0
13336 messages, Last post on Dec 05, 2009 at 4:32 PM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
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Replying to: lilengineerboy (Jun 22, 2009 6:27 pm) 1. Legacy wagon gone 2. Auto-trans only WRX 3. Auto-trans only Outback turbo Definitely heading for one size fits most. I guess since Mazda now doesn't offer a manual with the 6S, nor does Honda with the Accord V6 4-door, they must also have had shares purchased by Toyota... 1. How about the possibility that the Legacy Wagon didn't sell? Considering I'm in Subaru heaven living in Upstate NY, and I've seen all of NONE on the roads without a dealer plate in the past 5+ years. 2. As long as I remember, the WRX has ALWAYS had a manual option, and still does. 3. Gotta knock this down to sales yet again, for pretty much the same reason in #1. The only thing that has happened since Toyota bought shares is the development (and cancellation) of a proposed sports coupe that was to be sold by both automakers. And 17% is less than the controlling percentage of 33.4%, according to Japanese law. Ask Ford...
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Replying to: lilengineerboy (Jun 22, 2009 6:27 pm) With poor sales and people opting for the very similar Legacy Outback, there is no reason to have a Legacy wagon. As a member of one of the largest Subaru dealers in the nation, I can attest to the fact that the Legacy wagon did not sell. 2. Auto-trans only WRX 5-speed manual still offered 3. Auto-trans only Outback turbo The Outback is not a car for enthusiasts. For all intents and purposes, it's an SUV according to Subaru. Again, we can point to lack of interest as a reason not to offer a manual Outback turbo. In my opinion, Subaru is headed in the right direction. Outside of looks, the new Legacy sedan seems to offer something for everyone. If you want FE, buy the 2.5i with CVT. If you want a little fun, but the manual 2.5i. Power? 2.5GT or H6. Throw into that the ever popular Outback, Forester (selling like hot cakes BTW), and WRX / WRX STi and you have a popular car line. Outside of the Tribeca, everything is a good seller, in restricted regions of course! |
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Replying to: mz6greyghost (Jun 23, 2009 3:37 am) No, just giving up on the enthusiast market. I was surprised Mazda did that, but oh well. Honda seems to bring out the V6 manual towards the end of the model run. I think it makes more sense in the sedan than the Honda Monte Carlo...I mean Accord Coupe. 1. How about the possibility that the Legacy Wagon didn't sell? Considering I'm in Subaru heaven living in Upstate NY, and I've seen all of NONE on the roads without a dealer plate in the past 5+ years. I think that;s because they are all in my neighborhood. How do you define "didn't sell?" Did you define it as 300,000 units/yr like Toyota does with the Camry or 60,000 like a small profitable European manufacturer does with their 3-series? 3. Gotta knock this down to sales yet again, for pretty much the same reason in #1. Again, what constitutes sales? The reason we went with Subaru last time is they had a sporty mid-size wagon with a manual transmission. If they are just making a boat with a slushbox, I can get that for a lot less $$. The only thing that has happened since Toyota bought shares is the development (and cancellation) of a proposed sports coupe that was to be sold by both automakers. And Toyota having access to Subaru plants in the US for manufacturing, allowing they have reserve capacity, made possible by canceling/eliminating models. 
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Replying to: lilengineerboy (Jun 23, 2009 5:03 pm)
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Replying to: elroy5 (Jun 23, 2009 6:30 pm) Blasting a company because they are trying to optimise sales with what their research tells them will sell is crazy. If people want a stick shift so bad they should be willing to pay extra for it. Maybe the manufacturers wouldn't abandon it if they can make money selling them. I like to drive a stick shift once in awhile but not on an everday basis and can't afford to just have a car sitting around to drive occassionally. I think I fall into the vast majority of midsize sedan buyers so the manufacturers are just responding to the market. Instead of complaining so much about stick shifts not being offered in every vehicle out there, pony up the extra cash. If the enthusiats do that the manufacturers will be glad to accomadate them.
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I've been looking at both the Accord and Camry and a friend mentioned I should look at Hyundai. The Sonata looks similar to both the Accord/Camry and I wanted to find out how it compared to ride/comfort? The tiburon gs also looks nice. tia, Chris
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Replying to: m6user (Jun 23, 2009 7:37 pm) That is a good point, if market research told the manufacturers that a large number of folks* would pay $1000 extra to substitute a manual for an auto in a midsize sedan, perhaps they would come back as a premium option. *Note that "a large number" does not mean the 5 manual lovers reading this post, who are poised to respond with: "I'd pay $1000 extra and even more...". 
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Replying to: jeffyscott (Jun 24, 2009 4:46 am) |
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Replying to: chris789 (Jun 23, 2009 8:51 pm) The Accord--sporty handling,taut steering wheel ,quite a bit of road noise. The Sonata is a bit of both actually. Plus the resale value of Camcord is much better than Sonata.Resale wont matter if u keep a car for 10 years or drive it till the wheels fall off. And if u are image conscious-go with Camry/Accord. Also a used 1 or 2 yr old Sonata can be a screaming bargain! |
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Replying to: igozoomzoom (Jun 24, 2009 4:57 am) They don't necessarily use less fuel anymore and when they do the difference may be negligable...at least they way they configure them on actual (midsize) cars. Rewarding driving experience depends on the driver, for most the manual is just an annoyance. It is no longer certain to be quicker, as evidenced by the recent comparison of a 4 cylinder midsize (was it the Mazda6) where the auto out accelerated the manual all the way to about 85 mph. Then there is the whole issue of DSG type transmissions perhaps starting to come in to play...will Ford be putting their "power shift" in the Fusion any time soon? Another advantage they had was that you typically had gotten one or two extra gears over the 3 and 4 speed automatics. This is now typically not the case...and in fact you may effectively lose the top gear in some cars. In my 2007 Mazda6, for example, 5th gear in the manual has a ratio that is fairly close to 4th in the auto. In my wife's 2005 Jetta the auto has a 6th gear that did not exist in the manual.
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