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Midsize Sedans 2.0

13336 messages,  Last post on Dec 05, 2009 at 4:32 PM

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What is this discussion about? Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Saturn Aura, Car Comparisons, Sedan

#12653 of 13336 Re: May Sales [akirby] by backy Jun 02, 2009 (12:21 pm)
Replying to: akirby (Jun 02, 2009 10:52 am) Fulan outselling the Accord! Whoudathunk.   I wonder how many of those Fulans were 2009s with closeout pricing, vs. the 2010s.   Prices are getting pretty aggressive on Camrys also. A couple of local dealers are advertising 2009 LEs at just over $18k--pretty low advertised price for a Camry. My local Honda dealers never advertise prices (just lease deals), so I can't compare directly to what is being offered on Camrys and Fulans. Closeout prices on 2009 Fusions start at under $14k though. Those must be getting thin on the lots by now. Replies to this message: akirby (Jun 02, 2009 12:51 pm) explorerx4 (Jun 02, 2009 2:58 pm) vanman1 (Jun 03, 2009 5:39 pm)
#12654 of 13336 Re: May Sales [backy] by akirby Jun 02, 2009 (12:51 pm)
Replying to: backy (Jun 02, 2009 12:21 pm) They moved a lot of 2009 Fulans in April but I'm sure there were some left in May.   However Ford also announced that their incentive spending for May was actually LESS than April while sales increased 20% month to month.
#12655 of 13336 Re: May Sales [backy] by explorerx4 Jun 02, 2009 (2:58 pm)
Replying to: backy (Jun 02, 2009 12:21 pm) i didn't look too closely, but i saw an ad for a camry with 0% financing for 5 years. Replies to this message: vanman1 (Jun 03, 2009 5:39 pm)
#12656 of 13336 Re: May Sales [explorerx4] by vanman1 Jun 03, 2009 (5:39 pm)
Replying to: explorerx4 (Jun 02, 2009 2:58 pm) Chevy is now advertising 0% for 60 on 2009 Malibu. Saw an ad on NBC a couple of days ago.
#12657 of 13336 Ford is by cannon3 Jun 03, 2009 (8:17 pm)
increasing production in North American plants!! Yeah more Americans returing to work! Ford does not have the capacity Honda has to make Fulans. I believe the Hermisillo plant can only produce about 300,000 Fusion/Milan/MKZ total. I predict Fusions will be made in the U.S. or Canada in the next 2-3 years at a re-tooled plant. Motor Trend had the Accord besting the Fusion. However if you read the article it was purely based on the projected resale value?? Even though the Fusion costs less upfront?? I also like the comment on the .3 second advantage the Accord holds. They had to redline the Accord in order to achieve the .3 second advantage over an automatic Fusion!! Looks like Ford had got it right and buyers are taking notice. I also saw a blurb on the net from an auto analyst that it may not be out of reach that Ford could move into the number 1 spot for domestic auto sales in the next 5 years! With the new product like the Fusion/Milan/MKZ/Focus/Fiesta and new Taurus in the gates. Ford is retooling a plant for the new Focus and will hire up to 2,000 Americans. Good press. Replies to this message: igozoomzoom (Jun 03, 2009 10:35 pm) acdii (Jun 04, 2009 4:47 am) akirby (Jun 04, 2009 5:47 am) baggs32 (Jun 04, 2009 8:46 am)
#12658 of 13336 Re: Ford is [cannon3] by igozoomzoom Jun 03, 2009 (10:35 pm)
Replying to: cannon3 (Jun 03, 2009 8:17 pm) The Motor Trend test was very close. The cars are so closely matched in most areas that it comes down to personal preferences and the the question of resale value.   According to Edmunds TCO (True Cost To Own) the Fusion SEL's Cost Per Mile is $0.51. The Accord EX-L's Cost Per Mile is $0.48. Variance in projected depreciation is why those numbers are identical. The Accord EX-L is projected to be worth 54% of its original value at 5-years vs. the Fusion SEL I4, which is projected to be worth 45% of its original value.   The Fusion is projected to depreciate 23% in the first year. The Accord's first year depreciation is only 11%. The safest bet, if you plan to trade in a year or two, will be the Accord. If you plan to drive the car for beyond 5-years, the differences in residual value become a moot point.   One of the few complaints I have about the 2010 Fusion, like the guys at MT, is the auto shifter. Not the transmission itself, but the lack of manual driver control. I'm not a fan of the trendy 'manu-matic' shifters with a separate manual gate for up/down shift. The Honda shifter has four gear selections- D, D3, 2 and 1. This allows the driver to hold the car in 3rd, 2nd or 1st when needed (engine braking, handy when driving down steep gradesm, etc). Another useful feature- if the gear shift lever is in the '2' position, the car will start out in 2nd gear (useful in slippery conditions to avoid wheelspin).   The Fusion simply has D and L. What exactly is 'L' and which of the 5 lower gears does it select??? Thankfully, V6 Fusions have a manual shift gate for 2010.   While the Fusion's shifter irks me, the Accord isn't flawless. I've owned Hondas for 17 of the last 20 years and the '08 Accord center control panel is the antithesis of Honda's legendary ergononic, intuitive interior design! It's a deal breaker for me! The Fusion interior is much easier to live with (and to look at).   The Fusion also has a few items on the options list that the Accord can't match. For example, the SEL offers the phenomenal 390-watt 12-speaker Sony Sound System. The EX-L has a lesser 270-watt 7-speaker setup (and regular EX models only have a 160-watt 6-speaker).   The SEL also has the option of 18" Alloy Wheels (both cars have 17" standard). As with the stereo, it's nice to have a choice here. FYI- these are the same sharp 18" alloys used on the '09 Fusion Sport Appearance Package and Blue Suede Package. Replies to this message: acdii (Jun 04, 2009 4:47 am) akirby (Jun 04, 2009 5:47 am) baggs32 (Jun 04, 2009 8:46 am)
#12659 of 13336 Re: Ford is [igozoomzoom] by acdii Jun 04, 2009 (4:47 am)
Replying to: igozoomzoom (Jun 03, 2009 10:35 pm) Your comment on the Honda center console reminded me of my #1 complaint on my 09 TCH, the center console, what the hell were they thinking lighting this whole thing up at night? Worse yet, you cant dim it without dimming the entire dash. A few times I had to turn the entire dash off so I could see where I was going when it was very dark and foggy.   I have seen the 2010 Fusion, and the first thing I noticed, the dash did not have anything that would be a distraction on a dark stormy night. Personally I wish the 2010 had come out last year when I got my Camry Hybrid, I find it much more comfortable to sit in and ergonomically much nicer than the Camry.
#12660 of 13336 Re: Ford is [igozoomzoom] by akirby Jun 04, 2009 (5:47 am)
Replying to: igozoomzoom (Jun 03, 2009 10:35 pm) The Fusion simply has D and L. What exactly is 'L' and which of the 5 lower gears does it select???   It's still an automatic mode, but it holds the RPM around 4,000 thereby providing engine braking. It will upshift from 1st or 2nd gear if necessary but will maintain high RPM. In the Edge and MKX there are some additional features with an Overdrive lockout switch in addition to the L position - not sure if that made it to the 2010s.   I had heard Ford went to the D-L setup for the CVT transmission which was subsequently cancelled. I've never had to take my 06 Fusion out of D anyway although I would prefer to have more direct control available. My previous car was a 2000 Lincoln LS which was the first use of SelectShift in a F/L/M product and having that direct control over the gear selection is great, whether you're using it for sporty driving in the twisties or for starting out in 2nd or 3rd gear or forcing a downshift for passing early, etc. It's not a replacement for a manual but it is certainly the most control over an automatic. Replies to this message: baggs32 (Jun 04, 2009 8:46 am)
#12661 of 13336 Re: Ford is [akirby] by baggs32 Jun 04, 2009 (8:46 am)
Replying to: akirby (Jun 04, 2009 5:47 am) In the Edge and MKX there are some additional features with an Overdrive lockout switch in addition to the L position - not sure if that made it to the 2010s.     FWIW our new Flex has those additional features. Basically you get two levels of hill descent control when you hit the O/D button on the shifter. You get a less aggressive mode in "D" and a more aggressive mode in "L". I've used it twice on dry roads while going down a couple of long, winding, and very steep roads. It worked pretty well for the most part once I figured out how to work it. You still have to keep your speed down for it to shift to a lower gear and apply the engine braking. Having gear options is still the best way to go, whether with a manumatic or the actual gears, but this should work for most folks too.   I don't know if the Fusion got this either but you can get the SelectShift in the Sport model.
#12662 of 13336 Could it be?? by cannon3 Jun 04, 2009 (6:02 pm)
A dual in the coming years between Ford and Honda for the top family sedan? Who would have even imagined Ford in the same sentence as Honda just 5 years ago when it came to family sedans. Who will come out with the next surprise? Hyundai? Mazda? I read very good things about the new Mazda 6. Can it claim a top 3 spot? Or... are the sales numbers going to flatten for Toyota/Honda and just be spread across the market to other manufacturers? There are some great sedans out there right now. Altima, 6, Malibu, even Subaru is coming out with a larger Legacy to compete. Wish I were in the market to buy.. Like a kid in a candy store.. Replies to this message: backy (Jun 04, 2009 7:24 pm)

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