Last post on Dec 10, 2013 at 5:10 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Kia Optima, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#11625 of 20238 Re: Chicago Auto Show [backy]
Feb 18, 2009 (8:02 am)
At last year's show I wanted to sit in the Optima but there was an older couple of that took up residence in it and after waiting several minutes I just could look. This year I sat in it and expected something similar to the Sonata but it just was very plain and a lot of hard plastic. The Kia and Sonata exhibits were in two complete separate showrooms so it was hard to go between two for a really good comparison but that was my impression. You know sometimes at those shows if you sit in a Beemer, then an Infiniti then a Kia it could possibly bias a person. I'm not a professional reviewer so I can't say if that may have influenced my opinion or not. I was hoping to like the interior because I think the exterior of the Optima is really good looking....better than the Sonata.
I sat in a Legacy but I'm not sure if it was the 2010 or not. I sat in a "special edition" and I didn't really think it was that special. Interior was tight, door seemed tinny and no frame around the window seemed a little fragile. Dash looked kind of old fashioned and headroom was tight and I'm only 5'9" but the seat may have adjusted high, not sure. It may have the 2009. If the 2010 was there it must have been in back of the display area which I didn't get to.
A side note. Mazda has a 2009 Mazda6 sport, no options at all except auto trans that I could tell. That was open to sit in. They had a black 09 Mazda6 Grand Touring with all the bells/whistles there but it was locked up. Not a good way to advertise IMO.
#11626 of 20238 Re: Cannot believe [captain2]
Feb 18, 2009 (8:25 am)
When a company loses market share AND overall sales decline, they can't sell as many cars as they used to. Therefore, they need fewer employees and plants. They did not move work out of the country - they got rid of excess capacity. The alternative was to keep plants and workers on the payroll with nothing to do. If they did that then they would be bankrupt already. Ford is actually retooling existing U.S. plants for things like the new Focus from Europe and other more fuel efficient vehicles and powertrains.
Why is it so hard for you to believe that Ford actually developed their hybrid system without ANY assistance from Toyota? It's the truth. Even Toyota admits it. Why can't you?
And with that, I'm done on this topic.
#11627 of 20238 Re: threads like this are misleading [banditboy]
Feb 18, 2009 (8:32 am)
after 100k decided to get a mazda 6i what a wonderfull car. then i moved up to the 2007 camry...
well the camry gives me uninspired driving experience
What led you to believe that a Camry woud do anything other than that? I thought it was pretty much common knowledge that that is the car for those who want a soft ride and don't care about things like steering "feel".
#11628 of 20238 Loans/bailouts
Feb 18, 2009 (8:42 am)
The Japanese/Korean governments have been giving their auto industry favorable treatment for decades now. Meaning tax breaks, tax cuts and incentives. Why is this any different from what our government is doing for the U.S. auto industry?
For now Ford has not taken any tax dollars. Yes, Ford did see the future and did get some money lined up for the now. How do you fault Ford for doing this? Ford is not struggling in Europe or Asia either. Ford is doing a great job in the quality and safety regions of car manufacturing. Ford has more models with 5 star crash ratings than Honda! I just cannot believe the bias and decent in this forum for anything that doesn't have a Toyota or Honda badge in this forum. Just puzzles me, when a car company, any car company is doing good things it should be recognized. Hyundai has made great strides in quality. VW is shedding its quality issues of the late also. If GM can turn its ship around, kudos to GM.
#11629 of 20238 Re: Chicago Auto Show [m6user]
Feb 18, 2009 (9:09 am)
Well, comparing the Sonata's interior to that of the Optima, I could see how the Optima would pale in comparison, as the Sonata's dash in particular looks a lot more modern than the Optima's, IMO. But overall the Optima's interior seemed well-finished to me, if a bit dated in the dash design. For example, I like the cloth on the Optima much better than that in the Sonata--unless Kia changed the cloth for 2009.
If the Legacy seemed cramped, it was probably the 2009. The 2010 is supposed to be roomier. Probably has not made its debut yet.
I also don't get this "let's keep the cars locked" strategy, unless it's a prototype or something special that is on a pedestal. I mean, the whole idea of car shows is to SELL CARS, right?
#11630 of 20238 Re: Sonata [lilengineerboy]
Feb 18, 2009 (9:51 am)
Are the Escape and Highlander the only AWD hybrids available?
Other than some luxury and poser hybrids (Saturn VUE, GM Pickups to name a couple) that's all I know of. Escape Hybrids are VERY hard to come by around here and there's usually a long wait list for them. Since I'll never buy a Toyota, unless it's absolutely necessary to do so, the Highlander never made my list.
#11631 of 20238 Re: Cannot believe [elroy5]
Feb 18, 2009 (11:52 am)
The fact that the Fusion is built in Mexico, kind of ruins the "Buy American" appeal of it. Doesn't it?
If we are going to go down that road, then is the Honda Accord, Toyota Camry, Subaru Legacy, Nissan Altima (with too many more to mention) Japanese since they are built in America?
#11632 of 20238 Re: Cannot believe [captain2]
Feb 18, 2009 (12:38 pm)
Ford designed their system on their own, the only problem is, they happened to design a system very much like the Toyota system, so to avoid patent issues, Ford licensed the technology from Toyota, while Toyota licensed non hybrid fuel system technology from Ford. It is quite possible that designers half a world away from each other, with no communications whatsoever between them can come up with nearly identical solutions. When you think about how the technology works, the solution is pretty much the same, regen braking, electric motors, CVT trans, and a gas engine, the workings are the same. The Ford system is a Ford designed and built system, that just so happens to be very close to Toyota's systems. I think ford and Toyota did the right thing with the licensing so both can produce hybrids.
I also feel that Ford saw the light early on when they came out with the Fusion, and other models, and put real quality back into them. They knew that the SUV/Truck market would falter eventually and needed something to fall back on, and to come out with a car that is on par or above the Toyota/Honda models was the real ticket. I have a Camry Hybrid, and let me tell you, the quality in the Fusion is far better than the Camry. If Ford has that Hybrid out last year, I might be driving that instead.
#11633 of 20238 Re: Cannot believe [aviboy97]
Feb 18, 2009 (1:00 pm)
then is the Honda Accord, Toyota Camry, Subaru Legacy, Nissan Altima (with too many more to mention) Japanese since they are built in America?
where something is physically built has an awful lot to do with its abilities to contribute to our economies - locally and nationally. To me the vintage (or national origin) of a brand name should have less to do with a altruistic purchase decisions than about anything else. If I were ever to consider something like the Fusion seriously, I first would have to be comfortable with my hard earned dollars ending up in Mexico and not where I feel it belongs..
In all fairness, however, to those not-so American' American' cars, however, the Hondas/Toyotas/Nissans etc. only produce cars here because it insulates them from the vagaries of the American dollar and they can make more money doing it this way, given that they have the freedom to locate their plants where they want and employ who they want. Options generally not available to what used to be the Big 3.
Ford did not HAVE to build the Fusion in Mexico, and I can't believe that even the UAW had they been presented with an offer along the lines of 'work with me here or I'll close these plants and move to Mexico' wouldn't have made some of the needed concessions. Makes little sense to bite the hand that feeds you.
#11634 of 20238 Re: Cannot believe [captain2]
Feb 18, 2009 (2:04 pm)
I can't believe that even the UAW had they been presented with an offer along the lines of 'work with me here or I'll close these plants and move to Mexico' wouldn't have made some of the needed concessions. Makes little sense to bite the hand that feeds you.
You obviously don't understand the UAW, because that is exactly what they've said time and time again. If they were willing to make concessions to get more work they would have put that in the latest contract, but they didn't. They didn't need to, because they had the jobs bank to guarantee work for all existing employees and protecting existing employees was more important than getting new work.
I'm sure that's all different now, since the jobs bank is basically gone and the UAW is conceding on pay and benefits now. But that's the way it was just 2 years ago.
And did you stop and think that by building the Fusion in Mexico they could use the profits to subsidize production of other vehicles in the U.S. - like the current and upcoming Euro Focus? Or consider that the profits from the imports go out of the country? So would you rather have profits that can be reinvested in other American products or just the hourly wages from the factory workers?
Oh good grief - why do I even bother?