Last post on Dec 06, 2013 at 4:28 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Kia Optima, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#11584 of 20194 Re: GM Dilemma [berri]
Feb 16, 2009 (6:01 pm)
The Impala is a decent car but it's getting dated for sure. GM has not updated it much since it came out in 2006. I tested one but the Malibu is a much more modern car and I was willing to give up a little space to be in an up to date car. I have zero regrets, Malibu is a fantastic car.
Chevy needs an all new Impala soon but I think it may be on hold because of the recession and GM's financial issues.
Feb 16, 2009 (6:38 pm)
"I don't think that a midsize Chevy/Ford is worth that much. This is due in part to the lousy resale value of American cars. Also, I just don't think that a Chevy is anything more than budget transportation regardless of how nice one is on the inside. Thus, in my opinion the "image" associated with Chevy doesn't warrant spending a lot on a loaded Chevy. In my neck of the woods, I only know one person my age who drives an American sedan and they drive a base Impala which they bought because of price, they used a supplier discount".
Take a Malibu for a drive, you will be shocked as to how good it is and how well it's built. There is no doubt I would never have really looked hard at a Chevy before the New Malibu came but it is a top notch sedan. Put your bias aside and test one.
#11586 of 20194 Re: robbieg [vanman1]
Feb 16, 2009 (7:01 pm)
There is no doubt I would never have really looked hard at a Chevy before the New Malibu came but it is a top notch sedan. Put your bias aside and test one.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Why don't you put your Malibu bias aside? Sorry, I won't ask you to do that, because you are entitled to an opinion as well.
I have driven a Malibu and I felt is was very cheap. I am interested in the new Fusion, as far as American goes. Chrysler? Please....it's only a matter of days before they are gone.
#11587 of 20194 Re: Sonata [akirby]
Feb 17, 2009 (7:36 am)
Last time I checked 34 (Fusion) was higher than 31 (Camry) (300 mile test). The only test that the Camry won was a 80 mile highway trip.
you are the source of the Ford press releases not me - and would say something like 'siginficantly better' FE and then use those figures to insinuate that the $1100.00 price difference would be quickly recovered with this. All I referenced was a specific test by Car and Driver that refutes your press relea, and would seem to indicate that maybe you wouldn't save anything by buying the Ford.
The Camry did take a fall recently , mostly because of the new 6 spd AT, with the truly new Camry and the drivetrains (V6) that came with it. So much so that even CR dropped its 'automatic' approval for the V6 versions of the Camry. So it seems that not even Toyota with all its billions is immune to teething problems - so now you want to contend that Ford will be successful with this - where Toyota didn't (the ratings for the V6 Camry improved rapidly). Yet another one of your press releases I guess - Ford with no money will be successful doing something that not even Toyota , with all that money - can do? Be real, probably won't happen.
The 3.0, 3.5 and 3.7 were recently noted by CR (the 09 Auto issue) as still being relatively rough and unrefined (surprise, surprise) , so if you now wish to claim that the V6 is nothing more than yet another DT, or that the 2.5 is nothing more than yet another 2.3 - then in both cases the buyer is getting something less than what is offered by the Fusion's competitors. The 3.5 has been around a whole 3 years BTW - reliability ratings (and reviews) for the Edge and Taurus have been unremarkable at best. 3 years is hardly enough time to make any kind of judgement about the reliability of the supposedly new DT - although the results so far have not been that encouraging.
Just calling a spade a spade, something very difficult to do when you look at the world thru blue ovalled glasses.
#11588 of 20194 Re: Sonata [captain2]
Feb 17, 2009 (7:46 am)
Grasping at straws is an understatement. I guess change is really hard for some folks to accept.
And BTW - I did NOT insinuate that you could recover the $1100 price difference (if that's what it really is - somehow I doubt those vehicles have the same equipment level) based on better fuel economy. I said IF that was the price difference then it might be justified based on several things including better FE but also including subjective differences like styling, ride quality, handling etc.
YOU said the camry used less gas and I see 5 out of 6 tests that say otherwise (2 EPA tests and 3 out of 4 C&D tests).
You're dropping your straws........
#11589 of 20194 Re: Sonata [captain2]
Feb 17, 2009 (7:51 am)
Having extensively driven a 3.5L Honda and the 3.5L Taurus, I can tell you that yes, the Honda is a bit smoother, but frankly, I've yet to find an engine with as sweet of a note as the Honda has. It's a sewing machine at low revs and a motorcycle at high ones.
That said, the Ford isn't rough or "unrefined." Instead, it is very smooth at low revs, but lacks the sweet sound of the Honda. At high revs, the Ford has an great growl. Sounds powerful like the Honda, but in a different way.
For what its worth, in my close family, we have a V6 Honda, 5 4-cyl Hondas, the Taurus, and a 4.0L I6 Jeep!
#11590 of 20194 Re: Sonata [akirby]
Feb 17, 2009 (9:16 am)
I did NOT insinuate that you could recover the $1100 price difference
Ahh, now I understand, this would be the difference between Fordspeak and the English language I guess -
Your post #11574:
As for the price difference on the Ford Fusion Hybrid versus the Toyota - I'm sure there is a difference in standard equipment. But even so, don't you think it's worth $1100 for significantly better fuel economy (41/36 vs. 34/33), BETTER reliability
No implication there about recovering the extra money? No?
I only referenced a specific test (C&D (02-09) Hybrid test) that refutes your 'significantly' better FE statemrent and also your claim for "BETTER' reliability something we simply don't have statistics for yet. The Fusion Hybrid is after all a 2010 model.
It actually surprises me that you aren't crowing from the rooftops - the Fusion Hybrid 'won' that comparo I'm referencing - despite the disparity in the claimed FE. To Ford's credit, they have apparently produced a car that drives less like a refirgerator than the others- something the enthusiast mags would obviously like.
#11591 of 20194 Re: Sonata [captain2]
Feb 17, 2009 (9:28 am)
So how did Ford manage 41 mpg in the EPA city test? Do you think it was rigged? Or is it possible that the EPA driving cycle allows the Fusion to run on battery power a lot longer than the C&D testers did? That requires light acceleration and you know the C&D testers probably weren't driving that way. How is it that journalists managed 40+ and in some cases as much as 52 mpg in the FFH? It can be done.
#11592 of 20194 Re: robbieg [vanman1]
Feb 17, 2009 (9:46 am)
I see you are GM fan since you have a Malibu and Montana van. Come on admit it you would have considered a Malibu regardless of quality because after all you drive a Montana and used to have a 2000 Oldsmobile. So what cars did you drive besides a Malibu? Did you even try the Accord? Did you buy the Malibu because it was cheaper?
I just think that few people actually cross shop an Accord/Camry and Malibu and actually buy the Malibu unless they are predisposed to buy a GM product. For the most part there are basically two categories of buyers, people people who buy Japanese and people who buy American. Few people bounce back and forth between an American sedan and a Japanese sedan. Unfortunatetly for the Big Three fewer people are buying American. I still think that Toyota and Honda are considered premium brands in comparison to Chevy and Ford. When is the last time that you saw a yuppie, who wasn't selling something, driving a Malibu? The reason for this is that the Big Three are only now starting to build decent cars after building crap since the 1980's.
#11593 of 20194 Re: Sonata [akirby]
Feb 17, 2009 (9:53 am)
So how did Ford manage 41 mpg in the EPA city test?
finally a good question, and one that is pretty much answered in that C&D test I'm talking about - yes the Fusion is 'programmed' to allow for all electric use to a higher speed than the TCH. Toyota, historically, has been a champion of setting its cars up to specifically do well in the EPA tests, Ford it seems has outdone them in this case. But the EPA tests have never really been terribly accurate reflections of the real world, something that apparently is continuing to be a problem.
Did Ford rig the test? No, not likely. They simply designed (programmed?) the car to do well in the specific EPA test, as many manufacturers have done before them. Can you point to some journalist somewhere that can go out and rather dangerously have some 'fun' hypermiling - sure it can be done - and that would be the case for either the FFH or the TCH...