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Midsize Sedans 2.0

18218 messages,  Last post on May 23, 2013 at 3:51 PM

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What is this discussion about? Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Kia Optima, Car Comparisons, Sedan

Messages Page 1150 of 1823

#11487 of 18218 Re: [backy] by baggs32

Jan 17, 2009 (11:41 pm)

Replying to: backy (Jan 17, 2009 9:24 pm)
"Car sales are way down, you are asking taxpayers to provide you with a line of credit, and you want HOW much for that Fusion??"
 
Ummmm, Ford did not ask for that. Yet. Have you seen the 2010 Taurus? Times are changing.
 
Yes, I think the Fusion, Camry, and Prius are competitors for some buyers--including me. But not all buyers of course
 
To some, yes. But for an SUV buyer like me, it's the more plush vehicle for me. That means the Prius is out of the equation. I'd wager most of the buyers will be like me and not you. But that is yet to be seen.
 
As to why Toyota would put two competing cars on the same lot, you'd have to ask them that.
 
Ford is not innocent here either. The Flex and TX are competitors as are the Escape and Edge to an extent. The TX is gone now though so I'm not sure where Toyota is going.
 
While you're at it, ask them if anyone ever checks out both the RAV4 and Highlander, or the Camry and Avalon, or the Yaris sedan and Corolla, or the Yaris 5-door and Matrix.

 
All good points. Again, don't know what they're thinking. Their sales are really bad too, way worse than Ford last month actually, if you haven't heard.
 
If you think the Fusion is worth more money than the Camry, great. But I think some buyers are going to have sticker shock when they look at the Fusion Hybrid, if only due to perception
 
Ah, but the perception might change once they sit in both. The FFH has that standard, customizable display in the IP which the Camry hybrid lacks. I bet that eye candy sways a lot of shoppers. 25k is not a lofty goal for this car and I see no problem with them selling all of them. Especially because that includes Milan hybrid sales to IIRC. There are currently 2 2009 Escape hybrids (FEH for short) available in my area. But both are $36k+ loaded Limited models so they go last. The salespersons laugh at you when you ask for a moderately equipped FEH. YMMV of course.
 
People are used to getting gouged for Toyotas, however.
 
Well, the "Saved by 0" campaign didn't save their sales enough. Word is Toyota is going to begin a big incentive run soon.
 
I'm due for a new lease soon and I'm pulling for a new Ford. Problem is, they aren't' leasing real well right now and Toyota and Honda are. I want to help the Big3 but I can't if they don't help me.

#11488 of 18218 Re: [baggs32] by jeffyscott

Jan 18, 2009 (5:30 am)

Replying to: baggs32 (Jan 17, 2009 11:41 pm)
Ford did ask for a line of credit. They wanted it to be available should they need it.
 
(Ford) asked Congress for a $9 billion line of credit it could draw on if market conditions continue to deteriorate.
 
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081203/AUTO01/812030394
 
Not that I think that this would or should have much impact on what a buyer may think a Fusion is worth.

#11489 of 18218 Re: [baggs32] by backy

Jan 18, 2009 (7:09 am)

Replying to: baggs32 (Jan 17, 2009 11:41 pm)
I'd wager most of the buyers will be like me and not you. But that is yet to be seen.
 
We already have some empirical evidence on this, to wit, what are the sales numbers since the Camry Hybrid was introduced of that car vs. the hatchback Prius? Or add up the total sales of the CH, the Altima Hybrid, and the GM sedan hybrids over that time and compare to Prius sales. That might give some indication as to whether hybrid buyers prefer a mid-sized sedan or mid-sized (if marginally) hatchback configuration.
 
As to the effect of Ford's financial situation on pricing, I agree there is no direct effect. I think there is a psychological effect, however, i.e. I think many buyers expect "fire sale" prices from automakers now because of market conditions. That's why I think a $27k base (more loaded) FFH will be a tough sell while gas prices stay low and they sit next to regular FFHs with excellent FE numbers for their class at about $10k less--fancy displays with leaves sprouting and bunnies dancing (OK, maybe not that) notwithstanding.

#11490 of 18218 Prirus by gooddeal2

Jan 18, 2009 (7:51 am)

Prirus is NOT a mid-size sedan to some people, myself included. You cannot just raises the trunk to have more space inside thus making this car to be a mid-size car. The great mileage on the Prirus b/c:
 
1. it's a compact sedan.
2. it has a tiny engine w/ low HP than any sub-compact sedans.
 
If you compare the Prirus to other small engine cars (1.5L) like the Yaris, Fit, or Versa, the mileage is not much better but the HP is a lot lower.

#11491 of 18218 Re: Prirus [gooddeal2] by thegraduate

Jan 18, 2009 (8:15 am)

Replying to: gooddeal2 (Jan 18, 2009 7:51 am)
If you compare the Prirus to other small engine cars (1.5L) like the Yaris, Fit, or Versa, the mileage is not much better but the HP is a lot lower.
 
Um, sorry, that's really not true. Are you sure you compared them?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
*Nissan Versa, 122hp - 24-27 city / 31-33 hwy
 
*Toyota Yaris, 106hp - 29 city / 35-36 hwy
 
*Honda Fit, 117hp - 27-28 city / 33-35 hwy
 
*Toyota Prius - 110hp - 48 city / 45 hwy (19-24mpg better city / 9-14mpg better hwy)
-----------------------------------------------------------
(Up to 100% better fuel economy than the vehicles you mention, with at most, 12 fewer horses). Pretty big economy differences with little power-tradeoff if you ask me!

#11492 of 18218 Re: Prirus [thegraduate] by gooddeal2

Jan 18, 2009 (8:36 am)

Replying to: thegraduate (Jan 18, 2009 8:15 am)
Well, the diff. in MPG is still not significant to me as an average driver. For a 12K miles/year, Yaris 12K / 32 mpg = 375 gallons v. Prirus 12K/46.5mpg = 258 gallons = 117 gallons saving per year or about 0.32 gallon/day.
 
What I try to say is that some people like to compare the Prirus to a REAL mid-size car like a Camry or Altima to make others think that the Prirus really save them a lot of gas.
 
*Toyota Prius - 110hp
 
Well, I just compared them using carsdirect and it says the HP for Prirus is 76HP...from toyota website:
 
Power output
76 hp 5000 rpm (57 kW 5000 rpm)
 
Electric Motor Power output
67 hp 1200-1540 rpm (50 kW 1200-1540 rpm)
 
Hybrid System Net Power
110 hp (82 kW)

#11493 of 18218 Re: Prirus [gooddeal2] by thegraduate

Jan 18, 2009 (8:42 am)

Replying to: gooddeal2 (Jan 18, 2009 8:36 am)
Considering the Prius has more combined legroom than my "real midsize" 2006 Accord sedan, (41.9 in of front legroom and 38.6 in of rear for the Prius, 42.6 and 36.8 for my Accord), I'd say its pretty roomy for a car that gets close to 50 mpg in town. At 6'5" 200, its legroom and headroom that make the big difference for me, and the Prius has my midsize Accord beat in room where it counts.

#11494 of 18218 Re: Prirus [gooddeal2] by thegraduate

Jan 18, 2009 (8:45 am)

Replying to: gooddeal2 (Jan 18, 2009 8:36 am)
Well, the diff. in MPG is still not significant to me as an average driver. For a 12K miles/year, Yaris 12K / 32 mpg = 375 gallons v. Prirus 12K/46.5mpg = 258 gallons = 117 gallons saving per year or about 0.32 gallon/day.
 
When gas was $4 a gallon, those 117 gallons would've amounted to a 13th car payment's worth of gas ($468). Let's face it, gas won't stay under $2 forever! By the way, if you drive 20k a year like I do, that number is significantly higher.
 
I don't have a hybrid, and don't "pull for Toyota" in any way, just stating a dissenting opinion here.

#11495 of 18218 Re: Prirus [thegraduate] by gooddeal2

Jan 18, 2009 (8:45 am)

Replying to: thegraduate (Jan 18, 2009 8:42 am)
I just read this from edmunds review...
 
The gas engine produces 76 horsepower and 82 pound-feet of torque, while the electric-drive motor produces the equivalent of 67 hp and 295 lb-ft of torque. Net peak horsepower is 110, mainly because the two power sources hit their peaks at different times.

#11496 of 18218 Hyundai Sonata 08..Need advise on two issues by SS0198

Jan 18, 2009 (9:55 am)

Hi,
I have a 08 HYUNDAI SONATA (GLS-V4) and it has 30,000 miles on it and I bought it with a warranty and it is certified.
 I have some issues that I noticed recently
1. Some times I notice or feel weird sound when I am driving on a normal road as we see this kind of sound when your car drives on a curb. (For example when you are driving on a highway and you get in to a curb...you can feel that it is curb).
Is this some thing with the road or have to do some thing with tires. Tires looks good so far.
2..I also noticed that there is a small crack on the glass where the odometer is present. Is this some thing urgent I have to take care ASAP.
I really appreciate if some one give some information about my first issue
I have the warranty and do you think if I take it to a dealer they will be taken care.
Thanks all for your help
SS

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