Last post on May 23, 2013 at 3:51 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Kia Optima, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#11360 of 18218 Ford and Toyota mid-sized bybrid dispute
Jan 08, 2009 (8:29 pm)
Read in USA Today today that Ford and Toyota are having a little tiff over who has the highest mpg in a mid-sized car. Toyota wants to make it clear that they have the mid-sized car with the highest fuel economy: Prius. Ford's take: c'mon, everyone knows the target of the Fusion hybrid is the Camry hybrid, as Fusion and Camry are both mid-sized sedans.
All right now, children, if you don't stop squabbling you will be sent to bed without your supper!
#11361 of 18218 Re: Say it isn't so! [baggs32]
Jan 08, 2009 (9:24 pm)
It's often easier to use it when your hands are tied than to dig in your pocket for the fob
Man, I would move if I got tied up that often.
#11362 of 18218 Re: Say it isn't so! [bpizzuti]
Jan 08, 2009 (9:32 pm)
Mazda just joined the midsize class
Where have you been? The Mazda6 has been around since 2002 as a MY2003. BTW, Ford used Mazda's GG/GY platform to develop the Fusion/Milan and Ford saved $10 billion by doing so (something I learned at my recent tour of the Mazda6 factory in Flat Rock, MI).
Now that Mazda6 is all new for 2009, and the Fusion went under the knife, they are hardly similar, with the exception of a basic platform and a Mazda designed 2.5L power plant. Calling them "basically the same" is such a total lie in regards to their current form. The 06-09 Fusion was almost a rebadged 03-08 Mazda6. Ford used the award winning Mazda6 architecture to get back into the mid-sized segment after the demise of the Taurus. 5 minutes of web surfing would have told you that.
Saying CX-9 has it means nothing since we are specifically discussing the mainstream midsize class
Means everything. Ford was not innovative by using a blind spot monitor detection system, Mazda has it in their Mazda6, and has utilized that technology for over a year now.
Jan 09, 2009 (4:21 am)
Actually/technically, Mazda just joined the fullsize class!
#11364 of 18218 Re: Say it isn't so! [aviboy97]
Jan 09, 2009 (4:28 am)
Where have you been?
Surfing the Internet reading about the Fusion/Mazda6 relationship. The Mazda6 was significantly smaller than a typical midsize, so I'm not sure it really counts as a midsize (same with the Subie Legacy, come to think of it). Ford took that gen Mazda6 and heavily revised the platform, including lengthening and widening it, to make the Ford Fusion (also added AWD, which was not available on the 6). Mazda in turn used THAT platform to make the NA market Mazda6 with Mazda-tuned suspension and tranny (and probably steering rack but I'm not sure). Still can't get AWD or Sync on the 6 though, which kinda sucks, but what can one do?
It's not blatant badge-engineering like Cobalt/G5 (or Fusion/Milan, come to think of it) but there's definitely a very close relationship between the two vehicles.
#11365 of 18218 Re: Ford and Toyota mid-sized bybrid dispute [backy]
Jan 09, 2009 (4:33 am)
Oh my god is Toyota trying to pass off the Prius as a midsize just to be a pain? The 0.6 is just there so they can say that. All Ford has to do is say they have the highest MPG in a midsize sedan and Toyota will just have to shut up...Prius is a hatchback and not a sedan. Then again, they could be specific, showing off the greater interior volume, horsepower, AND MPG than competing hybrid sedans (asterisk indicating that the competition is the TCH, NAH, and Chevy Malibu pseudo-hybrid)
Personally, I'd prefer to see the pistols at noon
#11366 of 18218 Re: Say it isn't so! [bpizzuti]
Jan 09, 2009 (6:45 am)
The Mazda6 was significantly smaller than a typical midsize, so I'm not sure it really counts as a midsize (same with the Subie Legacy, come to think of it).
The 1st-gen 6 counts as a midsize in this forum, and about 99% of all other automotive publications, as well as the EPA classification system.
It's a midsize. Always has been, probably always will be.
#11367 of 18218 Re: Say it isn't so! [bpizzuti]
Jan 09, 2009 (11:25 am)
Mazda in turn used THAT platform to make the NA market Mazda6
Not to get nit picky, but, that's not true. Again, I visited Auto Alliance International in Flat Rock, MI, and had an extensive lesson about the Mazda6 and learned some valuable information from people on the Mazda6 project and engineer insight.
there's definitely a very close relationship between the two vehicles.
They are more like third cousins now.
#11368 of 18218 Re: Say it isn't so! [aviboy97]
Jan 09, 2009 (12:31 pm)
Did they not use Ford's CD3 platform? Or did they modify their existing mazda6 platform? Or something else?
#11369 of 18218 Re: Say it isn't so! [akirby]
Jan 09, 2009 (6:27 pm)
They modified the existing platform.
CD3 is what Ford renamed it in reference to their "global" identity. I learned that the platform was not jointly developed, but, rather developed by Mazda alone. Ford was allowed to just use it and modify it. Ford essentially modified a complete Mazda6 and gave the world the Fusion. This saved Ford $10 billion. Yes, $10 billion. Since Ford uses this platform in several vehicles, Ford made out very well.
The 06-09 Fusion and 03-08 Mazda6 were so very very close. The power plants were identical and transmissions were different. In fact, the dash board architecture were identical. HVAC vents were in the same place. The top center of the dash was a storage compartment. If you were to open up the hood of both I4 and V6 models, you could not tell the difference between the two. Everything was in the same exact place. Where the differences came in were suspension components, steering system, braking system and enhanced frame rigidity points. The Mazda was tuned for performance and the Fusion was tuned for a more forgiving ride.
What we see now with the 2010 Fusion and 2009 Mazda6 is that they have grown apart. The Mazda6 went the route of improving their award winning vehicle by loading it with technology (keyless ignition, BSMS, Bluetooth phone and audio, Xenon HID lights etc...), larger in size, competitive with fuel economy and still be the best mannered on the road.
The Fusion has really grown into it's own and really separated it's self from the Mazda. We see it has a more aggressive and sporty design. It offers Sync and other updated technology. It offers 6-speed trannys in every model (which helps it's FE). Interior layout is nothing like the Mazda6 anymore. And Ford added a wonderful Hybrid engine and updated 3.0L (it's about time, too!!)
As far as I know, the Mazda designed 2.5L and Ford designed V6 (3.5L for Ford and the Mazda built and tuned 3.7L) and the basic platform (which is not a big part of the car), there is not much of a similarity anymore. I'm sure there are some parts that they use the same supplier for, like various electrical components etc...
We all know that Ford is a little late to the party, however, they are here and they are offering one hell of a car. It's irrevelant how long they took to get here. They are here, and lets hope they are here to stay.