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Sedans Midsize Sedans 2.0
13221 messages, Last post on Nov 23, 2009 at 6:41 AM
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C/D compared four mid-sized hybrid sedans in its February issue: Altima, Camry, Fusion, and Malibu. Don't read further if you don't want to learn how they were ranked. The Malibu, a "mild" hybrid, was ranked last by a large margin. It averaged only 29 mpg on a 300 mile test loop that combined rural, highway, and urban driving. Consider that some non-hybrid mid-sized sedans can get very close to that. C/D also had gripes on the interior comfort and quality, and how abruptly the engine engages from auto-stop. Next was the Altima. It actually did a tad better than the Camry in FE overall, 32 to 31 mpg, and was the quickest of the four. But it was knocked for lack of refinement. The Camry was second and was praised for its silky operation and interior quality. But as is typical for C/D reviews of Toyotas, it was knocked for being like an "old man's car". The Fusion was their top choice by a significant margin, averaging 34 mpg on the test loop. It was also praised for combining Toyota smoothness with driving involvement. I was wondering about the value proposition of these hybrids though. For example, the Fusion starts at $28k and was $32.5k as tested. Given that a I4 sedan can be had for about $10-12k less, and could probably average at least 25 mpg on a combined rural/highway/city loop, the savings in gas at 15k miles a year and $4/gallon is about $635 a year. Quite a payback time--and gas isn't at $4/gallon now. Also consider that the Camry did the best on the highway of the 4 cars yet got 34.8 mpg there. Some mid-sizers could get very close to that if not match it on the highway. In the city, though, the Fusion got 36.9 mpg. That is perhaps double what a non-hybrid mid-sizer would do. (But the Malibu got only 19.8 mpg city!) So it appears the value proposition for full hybrids like the Fusion is best when the car is mostly driven in the city.
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Replying to: backy (Jan 03, 2009 7:22 am) Ah, and just think, if it stays cheap, we will be reading years from now about how stupid the managements of Ford and GM were for wasting all this money developing hybrids, instead of upgrading their profitable trucks and SUVs.  I assume there are more differences than just the hybridness if there is a $10-12K price difference. 
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Replying to: explorerx4 (Jan 03, 2009 6:06 am) maybe enough to pull over to the side of the road, if you run out. **** Maybe - but you're dead as well in a normal car if you run out. The differences are: 1 - The generator can use any number of fuels, and can be of any kind. I suggest a small turbine engine burning diesel fuel. Or that can run stuff other than petroleum based fuels. (say, already designed to run vegetable oils as well as diesel) 2 - vastly less weight and parts to fix. Said small engine could easily be air/heatsink cooled as well, meaning that you could eliminate 90% of the things that typically break and require fixing in a car. No coolant system(huge), plus not needing things like an alternator or transmission. Think VW Bug or Go-Kart simple. The vast majority of the vehicle is empty space as a result. 3 - tons cheaper to buy. Instead of a battery pack that can run 20-30 miles on its own, you have a smaller set of 2-4 batteries and some capacitors. BAttery replacement every 5-10 years is closer to $500. 4 - less weight (1000+ lbs lighter than a Prius) also means much quicker acceleration and less power needed to move it around. Less expensive components as well. This should save 10-20mpg right here. The problem is that nobody is making one because they all worship speed instead of efficiency. I'd happily deal with a 1980s era Civic CRX sized small car with 100mpg and 0-60 times in the 10-15 second range.(same as most older cars, so traffic isn't going any quicker anyways).
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Replying to: backy (Jan 03, 2009 7:22 am)
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Replying to: elroy5 (Jan 03, 2009 9:08 am) The only reason to buy a Prius is to show people that you have a hybrid, since it doesn't look like any normal midsize sedan. |
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Replying to: akirby (Jan 03, 2009 11:31 am) You forgot the most important part. The Prius cost about $10k less. That's one heck of an incentive to be greener. 
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Replying to: elroy5 (Jan 03, 2009 12:19 pm)
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Replying to: jeffyscott (Jan 03, 2009 7:55 am) Usually, there is. Hybrid models from most automakers include some of the more popular features, optional on lower models, as standard equipment. It helps to soften the price difference. |
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Replying to: akirby (Jan 03, 2009 11:31 am)
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Replying to: akirby (Jan 03, 2009 12:33 pm) The only reason to buy a Prius is to show people that you have a hybrid, since it doesn't look like any normal midsize sedan. Quoted for truth! Having been behind the wheel of a Prius, I can agree with everything here, especially the driving experience. To me, Toyotas are a close second to Buick in terms of putting me in a coma when behind the wheel, but the Prius is beyond pathetic. The low rolling-resistance tires squeal at every corner, WITHOUT being pushed hard, and they also contribute heavily to the numb steering, miserable braking, and the overall disconnected feeling you get. I can see why tree-huggers love it, and why anyone with a soul doesn't. You forgot the most important part. The Prius cost about $10k less. That's one heck of an incentive to be greener. It may be $10K less on paper, but you're going to have a hard time finding ANY Prius at that base price, since they were (and in some cases, still are) going at a premium over MSRP. I've seen listing of USED examples going for higher than that. That's not the most important part to me. Styling, features and driving are more important to me than the price. Quoted for agreement. Kudos to Ford for the excellent press and praise they've been getting for the Fusion Hybrid, which seems well-deserved.
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