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Midsize Sedans 2.0

13306 messages,  Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 10:18 PM

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What is this discussion about? Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Saturn Aura, Car Comparisons, Sedan

#11166 of 13306 Re: 2009 Optima gets with the (ES)program [akirby] by kdshapiro Nov 07, 2008 (7:26 am)
Replying to: akirby (Nov 06, 2008 5:37 pm) However, it doesn't stop wheelspin - that's traction control and while TC is almost always included with ESC you can get TC without ESC in some vehicles.   We'll that's true, but without TC ESC isn't effective. It's the TC which modulates the brakes. Do you have an example of a manufacturer that has ESC but not TC? Replies to this message: akirby (Nov 07, 2008 8:49 am)
#11167 of 13306 Re: Lively safety info...offer more comparisons? [stephen987] by leonfam Nov 07, 2008 (7:58 am)
Replying to: stephen987 (Nov 07, 2008 6:23 am) Ah...the Elantra...yes, the Hyundai fan club has done a great job of pushing, I mean describing, that car.   Just funnin'...These forums have been great for getting me to think more broadly.   And...the other half believes in 'brands" and "quality"..and is so luke warm on a Hyundai it becomes a dead-end conversation. Last thing I need is the "i told you so" at the first sign of trouble...and I want to be able to switch back and forth between the cars. I'll be stuck in the Hyundai with no escape if I go that route.   I could drag us out to drive one this weekend...and while it will surely be "fine"...i don't see it overcoming doubts or arrousing any passion... Replies to this message: stephen987 (Nov 07, 2008 8:08 am)
#11168 of 13306 Re: Lively safety info...offer more comparisons? [leonfam] by stephen987 Nov 07, 2008 (8:08 am)
Replying to: leonfam (Nov 07, 2008 7:58 am) Fair enough. FWIW I'm mostly a Honda guy, so I guess I'm one of the "brands" people. I drove an Elantra as a rental for a few days last month, and was pleasantly surprised with the power and the room. Despite these factors and the high level of equipment it was clearly a compact car of the same ilk as Civic, Corolla, et al, and not IMHO a true competitor to the midsize sedans generally discussed in this thread.   I was, on the other hand, very impressed with a four-cylinder Milan I drove for a couple of weeks in the summer.   My apologies for the brief detour down Elantra Avenue.
#11169 of 13306 Re: Lively safety info...offer more comparisons? [leonfam] by thegraduate Nov 07, 2008 (8:17 am)
Replying to: leonfam (Nov 06, 2008 10:40 pm) I tend to agree with stephen... check out the Hyundai Elantra. Lower price, compact dimensions, ESC standard. It also happens to have midsize interior room, according to the EPA. The Accord and Sonata are technically full-size sedans, though just barely.   I do...but would like to hear some opinions/facts on comparing safety in Mazda6, Accord and Civic.   To answer your request directly, all of the vehicles you mention are very safe, and MUCH safer than the average compact or midsize car was 5 or 6 years ago. It's actually hard to make a bad decision based on safety, these days.   Here are the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety's "Top Picks" for the vehicle categories you are looking at (compact and midsize, non-lux models) These sedans did exceptionally well in testing, and offer ESC.   MIDSIZE Ford Fusion 2009 models with optional electronic stability control   Honda Accord 4-door models   Mercury Milan 2009 models with optional electronic stability control   Subaru Legacy with optional electronic stability control   Volkswagen Jetta 2009 models   Volkswagen Passat 2009 models ************************************ COMPACT Honda Civic 2009 4-door models with optional electronic stability control   Mitsubishi Lancer 2009 models with optional electronic stability control   Scion xB 2008-09 models   Subaru Impreza with optional electronic stability control   Volkswagen Rabbit 2009 4-door models **************************** You asked specifically about the Civic, Accord, and 6.   The Civic and the Accord received "Good" scores (the highest rating possible) for the frontal-offset test on each of the measures below. The Mazda 6 received a marginal rating (2nd lowest possible) for the Leg/foot-right portion, but received "Good" overall.   Injury measures: Restraints/dummy kinematics, Head/neck, Chest, Leg/foot-left Leg/foot-right   The IIHS had this to say about the Mazda 6's "Marginal" rating in that particular area:   **Forces on the right tibia indicate that injuries to the lower leg would be possible.**   For the side-impact test, the new Mazda 6 has not yet been tested. The Accord received "Good" scores across the board for risk of injury for the measures below. The Civic received "Good" scores on all measures except Driver Torso, in which it received "Acceptable" ratings, the second highest. As far as that goes, the IIHS had this to say about that particular Acceptable rating:   **Driver — Measures taken from the dummy indicate that rib fractures would be possible in a crash of this severity. The risk of significant injuries to other body regions is low.**   Injury Measures: Head/neck, Torso, Pelvis/leg, Head Protection      I hope this helps! Replies to this message: canddmeyer (Nov 08, 2008 7:49 pm) plekto (Nov 09, 2008 10:29 am)
#11170 of 13306 Re: 2009 Optima gets with the (ES)program [kdshapiro] by akirby Nov 07, 2008 (8:49 am)
Replying to: kdshapiro (Nov 07, 2008 7:26 am) They work differently. TC uses the brakes individually to limit wheelspin and loss of traction. ESC uses the brakes individually to correct understeer/oversteer. If you go around a corner too fast and start to understeer, ESC will brake the rear inside wheel to pull the front end around back in line with the steering, but there is no loss of traction.
#11171 of 13306 Re: 2009 Optima gets with the (ES)program [backy] by newowner10 Nov 07, 2008 (9:04 am)
Replying to: backy (Nov 06, 2008 8:03 pm) I believe the missing information on the safety equipment's worth debate is how much does it add the the price of the car. Is it worth $100 most would say yes. Is it $2000 some would say yes some would say no. A helmet may be good for maximum safety. Bigger cars with poor gas mileage would be safer than a small car if the run into each other. Replies to this message: stephen987 (Nov 07, 2008 10:45 am)
#11172 of 13306 Re: 2009 Optima gets with the (ES)program [newowner10] by stephen987 Nov 07, 2008 (10:45 am)
Replying to: newowner10 (Nov 07, 2008 9:04 am) Bigger cars with poor gas mileage would be safer than a small car if the run into each other.   But of course a smaller, lighter, more maneuverable car in the hands of an alert driver may be able to avoid that collision completely. . .   One reason for the popularity of the midsize cars to which this particular forum is devoted: they are an excellent compromise between these two extremes.
#11173 of 13306 Re: 2009 Optima gets with the (ES)program [m6user] by explorerx4 Nov 07, 2008 (4:11 pm)
Replying to: m6user (Nov 06, 2008 4:01 pm) that's basically, what i was trying to convey, although i guess not too clearly. for some anyway.
#11174 of 13306 Re: Lively safety info...offer more comparisons? [thegraduate] by canddmeyer Nov 08, 2008 (7:49 pm)
Replying to: thegraduate (Nov 07, 2008 8:17 am) The NHTSA has given the 2009 Mazda6 5-stars on all ratings, including the side-impact test. I do agree that IIHS testing results are different. The Accord proved safer in frontal impact load tests, although both the Mazda & Honda are 5-star rated. The 5-star Mazda6 proved safer in all side-impact tests, although interestingly, the numbers are very close to the 3-star rated Accord. Not sure why a 2-star deviance for such similar numbers. Replies to this message: plekto (Nov 09, 2008 10:29 am)
#11175 of 13306 Re: Lively safety info...offer more comparisons? [canddmeyer] by plekto Nov 09, 2008 (10:29 am)
Replying to: canddmeyer (Nov 08, 2008 7:49 pm) It probably has something to do with the seatbelt anchoring points or something similar(. Ie - something that the testers decided was worthy of a deduction. Like when they mark down a car because the foot well is pushed in a few inches more.   Realistically, both cars are very safe.

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