- #11155 of 13143
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Re: 2009 Optima gets with the (ES)program [akirby]
by kdshapiro
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Nov 06, 2008 (3:09 pm)
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Replying to: akirby (Nov 06, 2008 2:23 pm)
akirby, you keep missing the point. It's not about emergency manuevers. It's about keeping the car going in the same direction as the front wheels are pointed. Oversteer, understeer whatever.
I'll repeat, one does not have to make an emergency manuever to have ESC kick in. I have some knowledge about ESC systems as my former car had one. ESC would kick in to keep the car from sliding or to stop the wheels from spinning.
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- #11156 of 13143
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Re: 2009 Optima gets with the (ES)program [kdshapiro]
by m6user
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Nov 06, 2008 (4:01 pm)
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Replying to: kdshapiro (Nov 06, 2008 3:09 pm)
You guys are basically saying the same thing but are hung up on grammatics. Anytime I feel any slippage I am going to react and perform some sort of "avoidance or emergency manuever". It doesn't have to involve an emergency lane change.
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- #11157 of 13143
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Re: 2009 Optima gets with the (ES)program [kdshapiro]
by elroy5
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Nov 06, 2008 (4:02 pm)
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Replying to: kdshapiro (Nov 06, 2008 3:09 pm)
ESC will help you control the car, regardless. It could be from an avoidance maneuver, or not. Any time the wheels loose traction, ESC will take action to stop it.
ESC, and all the other safety features have their value, and help reduce accidents. That's great! The question I have is, when is it too much. ESC, ABS, Airbags, Seatbelt tensioners, lane change sensors, crumple zones, etc, etc,. All these safety features are adding to the price of our cars, so where do we draw the line? When the safety features cost more than the rest of the car? We may be close to that point now. 
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- #11158 of 13143
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Re: 2009 Optima gets with the (ES)program [elroy5]
by backy
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Nov 06, 2008 (4:49 pm)
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Replying to: elroy5 (Nov 06, 2008 4:02 pm)
That point came long ago, when cars were first invented actually, since the most important safety feature of any car is the human brain--the value of which is priceless.
But that aside, I'd rather pay more for all the latest safety features than for stuff I don't need like nav systems, 100 gigawatt sound systems with disk arrays, DVDs, etc. etc.
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- #11159 of 13143
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Re: 2009 Optima gets with the (ES)program [kdshapiro]
by akirby
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Nov 06, 2008 (5:37 pm)
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Replying to: kdshapiro (Nov 06, 2008 3:09 pm)
But you said it had "nothing to do with emergency maneuvers" and that's not true. I never said that was the ONLY time ESC kicked in. It will definitely kick in whenever the car begins to understeer or oversteer including slippery conditions.
However, it doesn't stop wheelspin - that's traction control and while TC is almost always included with ESC you can get TC without ESC in some vehicles.
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- #11160 of 13143
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Re: 2009 Optima gets with the (ES)program [backy]
by elroy5
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Nov 06, 2008 (6:44 pm)
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Replying to: backy (Nov 06, 2008 4:49 pm)
I can agree with you on the things I don't want or need, like nav systems, mega sound systems, etc. But will the price for safety ever be too much for you backy? Should every safety feature be mandated by the government? Do you need a sensor to tell you when you've gone over some line on the road? If my car goes off the road, or into the other lane, I will know about it. I don't need to pay for some gadget to tell me that.
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- #11161 of 13143
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Re: 2009 Optima gets with the (ES)program [elroy5]
by backy
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Nov 06, 2008 (7:15 pm)
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Replying to: elroy5 (Nov 06, 2008 6:44 pm)
I'm more interested in help in staying on my side of the road vs. being told that I've crossed over the line to the other side.  I don't think any car in this class has such a device anyway, does it?
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- #11162 of 13143
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Re: 2009 Optima gets with the (ES)program [backy]
by elroy5
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Nov 06, 2008 (7:49 pm)
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Replying to: backy (Nov 06, 2008 7:15 pm)
The new safety features always start in the luxury cars, but will eventually make it down to mainstream level. Do you think all these safety features are really necessary? Tire pressure monitors, lane departure sensors, blind spot sensors, etc. Where will it end? I don't want a computer driving my car. I would like to do that myself. I don't know about you, but when I change lanes, it's intentional, so I don't need some beeper to tell me it actually happened. It just seems to me that we are on a never ending road of added safety features, with the associated added weight, complexity and cost. I think a lot more time and money should be spent on making people better drivers, instead of making the cars idiot proof. 
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- #11163 of 13143
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Re: 2009 Optima gets with the (ES)program [elroy5]
by backy
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Nov 06, 2008 (8:03 pm)
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Replying to: elroy5 (Nov 06, 2008 7:49 pm)
Human behavior can't be controlled very easily, car design can, hence the trend to add more safety features will continue. The good news is, the more cars to spread the costs around, the lower the cost per car. So a feature that might cost $1000 on a low-volume luxury car will probably cost much less once it hits the high-volume mid-sized sedan market. ESC is a good example. What did that cost when it was first introduced? Now the incremental cost is pretty low such that many low-end cars have it. And since many safety features are electronic and use existing systems e.g. braking, the weight penalty for those is nominal.
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- #11164 of 13143
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Lively safety info...offer more comparisons?
by leonfam
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Nov 06, 2008 (10:40 pm)
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Thanks for the ESC discussion. We are still on the hunt for the car...my last post in this forum said we ruled out the mid-size sedans...but here I am again in this forum. More test drives, more reading and thinking...and it turns out the only viable option for us for a compact with ESC is the Civic EX-L. At that price I'm a blink away from an Accord or a Mazda6. Those are longer than I need for the amount of parallel parking I do...but would like to hear some opinions/facts on comparing safety in Mazda6, Accord and Civic.
Used Acura's are also on the list and will be test driven this weekend. 2004/2005 TSX or TL.
oh yeah...I'll also throw in doubts about the first year of a new generation. Seems like a good idea to avoid them....no? Moves the Mazda6 down the list...
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