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Midsize Sedans 2.0

13286 messages,  Last post on Nov 30, 2009 at 12:48 AM

You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens

What is this discussion about? Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Saturn Aura, Car Comparisons, Sedan


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#11107 of 13286
Re: Fusion Hybrid Fuel Economy [backy] by akirby
Oct 30, 2008 (7:19 pm)
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Replying to: backy (Oct 30, 2008 5:36 pm)

It's important to note that Ford did not pay Toyota for any patent rights for the hybrid technology - instead the 2 companies swapped patents. Ford developed their own technology but found it was so similar to what Toyota had already patented they wanted to avoid a potential future lawsuit, and Toyota needed something that Ford had already figured out. Ford is not using Toyota's hybrid system like Nissan.
#11108 of 13286
Re: Fusion Hybrid Fuel Economy [akirby] by elroy5
Oct 30, 2008 (7:33 pm)
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Replying to: akirby (Oct 30, 2008 7:19 pm)

It's important to note that Ford did not pay Toyota for any patent rights for the hybrid technology - instead the 2 companies swapped patents.
 
Sounds like Ford had to pay Toyota off, because they copied their work.
#11109 of 13286
Re: Fusion Hybrid Fuel Economy [akirby] by aqua33v6
Oct 30, 2008 (10:39 pm)
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Replying to: akirby (Oct 30, 2008 7:19 pm)

I don't know of any specific history between Ford and Toyota sharing hybrid technology, but I wouldn't be surprised if they had. For example, companies can make supplemental improvements to existing patents, and then turn around and patent those improvements. Possibly the case? Again, I haven't kept up on that sort-O-stuff.
 
Whether that be the case, or not, we could speculate such a thing.
 
(just as easily as we could speculate: "Sounds like this company paid-off that company," etc)
#11110 of 13286
Re: Fusion Hybrid Fuel Economy [aqua33v6] by akirby
Oct 31, 2008 (6:57 am)
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Replying to: aqua33v6 (Oct 30, 2008 10:39 pm)

Both companies were quite clear about this. Ford developed their own hybrid technology but found their design was close enough to what Toyota had patented that there was a possibility that Toyota could sue them, so they worked out a swap of patents to avoid that. Happens all the time. In fact Ford only licensed 20 of Toyota's 350 hybrid patents. In exchange they licensed some diesel and direct injection patents to Toyota.
 
Can we please stop spreading lies?
#11111 of 13286
Re: Fusion Hybrid Fuel Economy [akirby] by backy
Oct 31, 2008 (8:09 am)
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Replying to: akirby (Oct 30, 2008 7:19 pm)

It's important to note that Ford did not pay Toyota for any patent rights for the hybrid technology - instead the 2 companies swapped patents.
 
Bartering is a form of payment. Ford paid for licensing Toyota's hybrid patents by exchanging patents of their own. I really don't see why it matters whether Ford paid cash for the licenses, or paid with a swap of patents.
#11112 of 13286
Re: Fusion Hybrid Fuel Economy [backy] by m6user
Oct 31, 2008 (9:36 am)
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Replying to: backy (Oct 31, 2008 8:09 am)

If that's the case who paid who? Unless one knows the exact value of both patents it's possible Toyota was paying off Ford. Not likely but what does it really matter?
#11113 of 13286
Re: Fusion Hybrid Fuel Economy [m6user] by thegraduate
Oct 31, 2008 (10:13 am)
Reply

Replying to: m6user (Oct 31, 2008 9:36 am)

If that's the case who paid who? Unless one knows the exact value of both patents it's possible Toyota was paying off Ford. Not likely but what does it really matter?
 
In the process of comparing mainstream midsize sedans and their characteristics, it doesn't matter at all (to me). I believe we have a News and Views section, or something of that sort, where that would be a great topic to kick around.
#11114 of 13286
Re: Fusion Hybrid Fuel Economy [thegraduate] by backy
Oct 31, 2008 (10:26 am)
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Replying to: thegraduate (Oct 31, 2008 10:13 am)

With three votes Nay (doesn't matter), one vote Yea (important), the matter of who paid whom for how much of what using what form of payment is rejected.
 
What is next on the mid-sized sedans docket?
#11115 of 13286
Changes for 2009 by thegraduate
Oct 31, 2008 (10:40 am)
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Replying to: backy (Oct 31, 2008 10:26 am)

What is next on the mid-sized sedans docket?
 
Some things to chew on...
 
Honda's V6 Sedan gets re-rated at 271 hp, 254 lb-ft. up from 268 hp/248 lb-ft.
Toyota has a new 4-cylinder engine to replace the current 2.4L unit in the Camry when the 2010 model debuts. The new 2.5L unit that produces 179 HP at 6,000 RPM, along with 172 lb.-ft. of torque at 4,000 RPM in the RAV4.
 
The Altima gets new plastic wheelcovers for low-end 2009 models.
 
Volkswagen discontinues the 3.6L Passat, leaving the V6 to go in the new Passat CC. The Passat will use the 2.0L Turbo model, and according to VW.com, starts at $28,300.
 
I'm sure many people knew of a lot of these changes, but I thought I'd list them as conversation points.
#11116 of 13286
Re: Changes for 2009 [thegraduate] by backy
Oct 31, 2008 (11:07 am)
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Replying to: thegraduate (Oct 31, 2008 10:40 am)

OMG, I have to run down to my Nissan dealer and see those new wheel covers!
 
Would have been nice if they had added something useful, like standard ESC, to the Altima while they were at it.
 
It looks like the center of attention for CY 2009 for mid-sizers is Ford/Mazda--the refresh to the 2009 Optima notwithstanding. Since the Prius is "officially" mid-sized (at least by the EPA), that is another interesting development for CY 2009--the next-gen 2010 Prius due out in early 2009.

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