- #10057 of 13222
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Re: Dismal Chevy Malibu Sales[mz6greyghost] [thegraduate] [captain2] [thegr [akirby] [captain2] [thegraduate] [captain2] [backy] [captain2] [backy]
by elroy5
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Jul 02, 2008 (2:22 pm)
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Replying to: backy (Jul 02, 2008 1:47 pm)
Call us sheep, if you like, but people have been buying Camrys and Accords one after the other, for a long time now. A high percentage of these buyers are well satisfied with what they've been getting (Quality/Reliability). Unless Camrys and Accords start disappointing their owners, they are not going to take a chance on something else. So IMO it's Toyota and Honda's race to loose, regardless what the other manufacturers do. They're all fighting for 3rd place. We see buying another brand as a gamble, and if we had $25-30k to gamble away, we would have bought a luxury car in the first place.
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- #10058 of 13222
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Re: Dismal Chevy Malibu Sales[mz6greyghost] [thegraduate] [captain2] [thegr
by akirby
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Jul 02, 2008 (2:51 pm)
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Replying to: captain2 (Jul 02, 2008 1:27 pm)
When have you seen Ford put that much work into a mid cycle refresh after just 3 years? Never! At least not in the last 20 years. They're making some changes after just 1 year. This is exactly on par with the market leaders.
Is Ford 2-3 years late with their new engines? Of course! Why? Poor management decisions of the past. Mulally and Fields are fixing things as fast as they can, but you can't fix everything at once when you have limited funds and resources. Fusion is important but it's more important to have the 3.5L in the crossovers than in a Fusion right now.
They may be late, but they're finally doing things the right way. Watch how fast they convert truck/SUV plants to produce small cars. The old management ball and chain is gone. The only question is whether they can hang on long enough to implement the changes.
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- #10059 of 13222
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Re: Dismal Chevy Malibu Sales[mz6greyghost] [thegraduate] [captain2] [thegr [akirby] [captain2] [thegraduate] [captain2] [backy] [captain2] [backy] [elroy5]
by backy
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Jul 02, 2008 (3:07 pm)
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Replying to: elroy5 (Jul 02, 2008 2:22 pm)
I wasn't calling you or any other individual in particular a "sheep", so don't take it personally. What I was trying to point out is that there are buyers who won't look past the Camcords to even consider a car like the Mazda6, because (as you put it) they consider anything else a "gamble" even though the cars have changed a lot in the past few years. Although it appears the number of those kind of buyers may be declining. Witness the decline in sales of the Camry last month, while others including the Fusion, Malibu, Optima, and Sonata, went up year-to-year. Maybe those buyers don't have $25-30k to "gamble away", but they want a good mid-sized car for $15-20k.
And it's not 3rd place everyone is fighting for anymore... with the ascent of the small cars, it's more like 4th or maybe soon 5th!
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- #10060 of 13222
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Re: Dismal Chevy Malibu Sales[mz6greyghost] [thegraduate] [captain2] [thegr [akirby] [captain2] [thegraduate] [captain2] [backy] [captain2] [backy] [elroy5] [backy]
by elroy5
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Jul 02, 2008 (4:07 pm)
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Replying to: backy (Jul 02, 2008 3:07 pm)
And it's not 3rd place everyone is fighting for anymore... with the ascent of the small cars, it's more like 4th or maybe soon 5th!
Well, I was talking about "midsize sedans" only. Do you see another midsize sedan taking over the number 1 or 2 spot in the next 10 years? I don't. When our friend or neighbor's Malibu is still holding up well at 10 years/150k miles, we might believe the "change" is real.
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- #10061 of 13222
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Re: Dismal Chevy Malibu Sales[mz6greyghost] [thegraduate] [captain2] [thegr [akirby] [captain2] [thegraduate] [captain2] [backy] [captain2] [backy] [elroy5] [backy] [elroy5]
by backy
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Jul 02, 2008 (4:26 pm)
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Replying to: elroy5 (Jul 02, 2008 4:07 pm)
In the next 10 years? Anything is possible. The Prius is mid-sized, and I could actually see it take the #1 spot within the next 10 years as gas prices continue to climb. Or say the 2011 Civic is up-sized to mid-sized (ala the 2008 Accord being up-sized to full size). Or the next-gen Fulan is a smash.
Ten years is a very long time. How many people would have predicted 10 years ago that MT would rank a Korean mid-sized car over the Accord, Camry, and Altima, not to mention GM, Ford, and Chrysler? Or that a Korean mid-sized car would equal Accord and Camry in predicted reliability? That would have had to be a lunatic saying things like that 10 years ago. Yes... ten years is a very long time indeed.
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- #10062 of 13222
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Re: Dismal Chevy Malibu Sales[mz6greyghost] [thegraduate] [captain2] [thegr [akirby] [captain2] [thegraduate] [captain2] [backy] [captain2] [backy] [elroy5] [backy] [elroy5] [backy]
by elroy5
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Jul 02, 2008 (4:51 pm)
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Replying to: backy (Jul 02, 2008 4:26 pm)
I don't think MT, or any other rankings (CR, etc.), have much of an effect on sales numbers. If car buyers listened to what "enthusiasts" say, the Camry wouldn't be #1. Not even close.
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- #10063 of 13222
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The Prius is not a midsize
by jeffyscott
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Jul 02, 2008 (4:57 pm)
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Replying to: backy (Jul 02, 2008 4:26 pm)
The Prius is not a real mid-sized car. Look at the dimensions, it is similar size to Corolla and other compacts.
If the roof on my wife's Jetta was maybe an inch higher, it too would be mid-size, according to the EPA's silly definition.
As Edmunds put it:
Toyota is fond of pointing out that the EPA classifies the 2008 Prius as a midsize car, just like the Camry. But the Prius is much closer in size to a 2008 Toyota Corolla compact than a midsize Camry...the plain fact is the Prius is 3-4 inches narrower than the Camry, inside and out, and we can feel it the moment we sit in the cars.
Prius vs. Camry
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- #10064 of 13222
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Re: Dismal Chevy Malibu Sales[mz6greyghost] [thegraduate] [captain2] [thegr [akirby] [captain2] [thegraduate] [captain2] [backy] [captain2] [backy] [elroy5] [backy] [elroy5] [backy] [elroy5]
by backy
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Jul 02, 2008 (5:02 pm)
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Replying to: elroy5 (Jul 02, 2008 4:51 pm)
You haven't been paying attention to the marketplace, then. For example, Elantra SEs have been very hard to get and prices have shot up since CR made it one of their Top Picks. Sales of the Elantra overall surged about 50% in the two full sales months since that article came out. I don't think that was coincidence (although the turn to smaller, more fuel efficient cars certainly helped). The MT comparo just came out. Who knows what effect it will have? Camry sales were down last month, Sonata sales up. That was before the MT comparo was published. I think many car buyers (not you, obviously) do read car reviews and use them as data points. Maybe not enough to make someone buy a particular car, but enough to get them to a dealer to look at a car they might not have considered, had they stuck with their "safe", same-old choice.
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- #10065 of 13222
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Re: The Prius is not a midsize [jeffyscott]
by backy
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Jul 02, 2008 (5:07 pm)
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Replying to: jeffyscott (Jul 02, 2008 4:57 pm)
Prius is classed as a mid-sized car by the EPA. Look to the right. Mazda6 is there, right? Prius has a hair more passenger space than the Mazda6. Maybe we should dump the 6 off this discussion? And the Legacy is usually considered a mid-sized car. Prius has more interior space than the Legacy too.
Similarly, Elantra, Sentra, and Versa are classed as mid-sized by interior volume. Personally I could not care how big a car is on the OUTSIDE. What matters to me is how big it is inside. Actually, the smaller the car is outside, and the easier it is to park, the better I like it.
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- #10066 of 13222
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Re: The Prius is not a midsize [backy]
by dave8697
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Jul 02, 2008 (5:51 pm)
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Replying to: backy (Jul 02, 2008 5:07 pm)
So much pain over Camry getting to keep it's no. 1 spot. I have a different perspective. When I go buy my next car I will start looking at a G6. I'll want it at invoice or close to. I'll want $2500 in rebates. I'll want to use my $3400 in GM card earnings that I slowly accumulated over the 7 years since I last bought a new car. I'll expect it to be better than my last new GM, which has needed only a battery in 7 years. I have had experiences where driving a GM for it's full second decade has cost me less than $500 total in repairs, so the 'Gamble' thing is a mystery to me. Being burned by GM for me was when the '98 I have that I bought new needed $325 to fix a/c and then needed $275 to fix transmission all in a 2 year period about 3 years after I was done making payments. To put it short, I buy a new GM for 5-7k under sticker, pay it off in 18 months, then drive payment free for a decade and never have a single repair that ever comes close to the orig loan monthly pmt.
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