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5677 messages,  Last post on Nov 23, 2009 at 6:00 PM

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What is this discussion about? Hyundai Genesis, Hyundai Genesis Coupe, Concept Cars, Future Vehicle, Coupe, Sedan

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#71 of 5677 Re: I'm confused [snakeweasel] by rockylee Apr 08, 2007 (6:26 am)
Replying to: snakeweasel (Apr 08, 2007 6:23 am) I'm down with diesel, as long as they can promise me some gas engine beating power. Right now Audi, has one of the best diesel's made it's 4.2 V8 Turbo Diesel. Something like that is what I could live with. Of course Hyundai, pricing.   Rocky
#72 of 5677 Re: I'm confused [snakeweasel] by gpk Apr 08, 2007 (6:33 am)
Replying to: snakeweasel (Apr 08, 2007 6:23 am) A diesel hybrid is optimal. I was thinking that the biggest strike against hybrids right now is the lagging battery technology aspect of the equation. Replies to this message: snakeweasel (Apr 08, 2007 6:36 am) paisan (Apr 08, 2007 6:40 am) jdkahler (Apr 08, 2007 9:55 pm) paisan (Apr 09, 2007 3:10 am) snakeweasel (Apr 09, 2007 4:16 am)
#73 of 5677 Re: I'm confused [gpk] by snakeweasel Apr 08, 2007 (6:36 am)
Replying to: gpk (Apr 08, 2007 6:33 am) The biggest strike against hybrids is that they are far more complicated. That means its more likely to break down and when it does more expensive to buy. Replies to this message: paisan (Apr 08, 2007 6:40 am) jdkahler (Apr 08, 2007 9:55 pm) paisan (Apr 09, 2007 3:10 am) snakeweasel (Apr 09, 2007 4:16 am)
#74 of 5677 Re: I'm confused [snakeweasel] by paisan Apr 08, 2007 (6:40 am)
Replying to: snakeweasel (Apr 08, 2007 6:36 am) Agreed, hybrids in 10 years are going to be super expensive to fix once out of warranty...   I'll take a diesel, preferrably an Isuzu based diesel system any day of the week. It's funny the Duramax Diesel is actually Isuzu in the GMs.   -mike
#75 of 5677 Hyundai Diesels get over 60mpg; Beat Prius in London Test by prosource1 Apr 08, 2007 (10:14 am)
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2006/10/17/hyundai-getz-as-efficient-as-a-toyota-pr- ius-in-london-test/   63 MPG http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/roadtests/43126/hyundai_getz.html Replies to this message: snakeweasel (Apr 08, 2007 11:45 am)
#76 of 5677 Re: Hyundai Diesels get over 60mpg; Beat Prius in London Test [prosource1] by snakeweasel Apr 08, 2007 (11:45 am)
Replying to: prosource1 (Apr 08, 2007 10:14 am) Being in London I would guess thats Imperial gallons which is 20% more than a US gallon. So 63 MPG would be 52.5, which still is a lot.   According to the Hyundai UK web site the Getz gets 42.8 city and 60.3 highway in the diesel version. The gasser gets about 20% less.   I do wish they would bring that car here.
#77 of 5677 Re: I'm confused [rockylee] by drdonrs Apr 08, 2007 (6:54 pm)
Replying to: rockylee (Apr 08, 2007 6:19 am) I own an 06 Azera Limited as well as an 06 Sonata LX6 which are replacing 03 Acura TL's. Let me tell you that the Azera is luxurious and has "boulevard manners" and my Sonata is like a frisky colt. My Azera is competitive with the Avalon and the Lexus LS, and I have driven in both of those cars. The problem as I see it is that the present dealerships do not have the luxury mentality and do not offer the ambiance that the luxury owner craves as well as the "badge cache". That being said if you are looking for value, performance as well as quality at a price that is considerably less than the competition then Hyundai is the answer. I have been more than happy with my cars. I have had the Sonata for 15 months and the car is as "tight" as the day I bought it, and very few problems, if any. I have had the Azera for 8 months absolutely trouble free in every aspect. The Genesis can be a winner if marketed well, certainly better than the Azera. As an aside the Azera is going to be equipped with the Sonata 6 at a lower entry point and the planning for the Genesis is to also offer it with a 6 cylinder engine. This would interest me. Don Replies to this message: paisan (Apr 08, 2007 7:00 pm)
#78 of 5677 Re: I'm confused [drdonrs] by paisan Apr 08, 2007 (7:00 pm)
Replying to: drdonrs (Apr 08, 2007 6:54 pm) I like the Azera, but it's not an LS, sorry. RWD and V8 is nothing like a V6 FWD.   -mike
#79 of 5677 Re: I'm confused [snakeweasel] by jdkahler Apr 08, 2007 (9:55 pm)
Replying to: snakeweasel (Apr 08, 2007 6:36 am) I disagree that hybrids are "far more complicated" - at least Toyotas - and even where they are different that is no basis to make the statement "that means more likely to break down." My Toyota Highlander Hybrid is in many ways the same as the ICE Highlander - same V6 ICE, most other components the same. Differences include several electric vs engine mechanical systems (power steering, air conditioning, etc.), a CVT that has more than one drive component (the ICE and an electric motor that doubles as a generator) - which is different but not necessarily more complicated than any other type of transmission, and the electric/battery parts of the hybrid systems which absolutely are unique. These may be different but that doesn't make them more complicated than their counterparts in non-hybrids. Electric motors have been around as long as engines, and they are extremely reliable and very simple in their operation (their required control systems are also different but not necessarily more complicated either - and many components today are electronic rather than mechanical so again, different but not necessarily more complex). Charge circuits and batteries likewise are different and unique, but not all that complicated. And most of the rest of the components on the Highlander, at least, are the same as the non-hybrids.   The really big difference is they are drive by wire, and managed by a computer to a greater extent than your standard ICE vehicle (which today typically pretty computer controlled anyway), but I'd suggest this makes them more reliable, though a failure means they _might_ not be able to limp in for service. A well-designed, electronic system can be no more complicated (aside from the programming) than a mechanical system, but more precise and, especially compared to the mechanical cars of old, much more reliable. Sure, technically the computer is doing lots of things when, for instance, it switches from power to charge to regenerative braking, but the actual execution of it is really pretty simple, different but no more complex than an automatic transmission shifting while the engine accelerates or when the brake pedal is pushed and the mechanical brake mechanisms using friction, hydraulics and other components along with the downshifting transmission slow the vehicle down.   But there are ways they are less complicated. No serpentine belt, pulleys and other components to run the alternator (there is none), power steering, air conditioning. Just electric motors. And those motors will probably last the life of the vehicle. Ever lose a serpentine belt on the highway? Sure, cheap to replace if one fails, but I'd suggest a well-designed collection of electric/electronic components is more reliable than the combination of similar components driven by that serpentine belt (I don't have statistics here to back this up, just a hunch based on experience with standard cars and reliability of electrical/electronic components).   I'd really like to see statistics that back up the likely to break down statement. Anecdotally, after almost 2 years of driving the Highlander, and with friends who drive Priuses and a new Camry hybrid, my informal survey and personal experience says these are reliable, especially compared with my experiences in 35 years of driving any number of vehicles that were problematic. Yes, there have been reports of failures, but there are failures in all products, some design flaws but more often individual problems. The only recall I'm aware of for the Highlander had to do with an interior trim piece that could affect the accelerator - on hybrid AND ICE models.   Yes, the average driveway mechanic can't work on the hybrid components of hybrids, but with most vehicles being more and more computer controlled, you can't work on them, either, when it comes to the electronic components. But compared to the last 2 vehicles I've owned, I have a feeling the Highlander Hybrid will continue to be absolutely trouble free by 25000 miles while each of the last 2 had to have service for problems - and they were run of the mill vans that in the long run had significant failures in "proven" systems that ended up costing significant $$ and, with the last one, would have cost thousands more had it not been we bought the hybrid. Initial cost of the Highlander was higher than the ICE version, over the life of the vehicle our TCO will probably be similar to the ICE version, so overall it's a wash. But we'll also have saved about 20% of the gasoline an ICE version would have used, we will have polluted less, and our overall experience would have been similar with excellent reliability and comparable maintenance costs. Check with me in 10 years/150K miles and we'll see if I'm right, but I suspect the reliability of the hybrid components will be better than had we had an equivalent ICE vehicle, based on their being electronic rather than mechanical. Replies to this message: paisan (Apr 09, 2007 3:10 am) snakeweasel (Apr 09, 2007 4:16 am)
#80 of 5677 Picture by tibtuscani Apr 08, 2007 (10:44 pm)
looking sexy hyundai genesis

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