Edmunds.com | Inside Line | Auto Observer Your Account | Help | Directory
You are here:
![[F]](http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/townhall/webxicons/site.gif){kind=small}
Forums
Automotive News & Views Are gas prices fueling your pain? 
10042 messages, Last post on Jul 12, 2008 at 3:07 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
|
Replying to: lmpracetech (Apr 28, 2008 1:48 pm) The math for the 2-Modes is easy to do since GM already gave us the variables. For the Toyota's it's just as easy to do the math when you look at the big picture. For example what is a Prius? It's a 1.5L ICE 5 door hatch with some geegaws..... and a battery pack, wiring, two motors, inverter, converter, and a simplified transmission. Are there any other vehicles like it to compare it with? Yep the Matrix is also a 5 door hatch but with a 1.8L engine and a traditional transmission. A non-hybrid Prius ( if such a thing existed ) would be a Matrix in a different shape selling for about $20,000 +/-. How much did the Prius cost to develop? Pick a number.... $1 Billion? $2 Billion? $4 Billion? $4 Billion ???????? that's a lot of money. Here's the comparison. GM in it's announcement said that the total R&D cost for the 2-Modes was $1 Billion...and they split that with Daimler and BMW. As of the end of 2006 Toyta had announced that it had sold 1 million hybrids ( that figure is probably closer to 1.4 million by now ). IF..... Toyota's hybrid development cost was $3 Billion or 3 times as much as GM, Daimler and BMW spent then when divided over 1 million units the cost per vehicle was $3000. But when 1 million vehicles was reached that initial cost was fully recouped. Well that makes sense because in May of 2007 Toyota reduced the price of the top trim Prius' by $2000 and kept the discount in place til the present. Why? Because the VOLUME necessary to amortize the initial expense was reached. Volume, volume, volume. So at what volume does GM have to be in order to reach its full amortization point. Well if the initial press realease is to be believed and the cost of R&D was $1 Billion split three ways, then assuming GM took the lead and also took most of the most cost then it's share would be say $500 Million. Divide $500,000,000 / 150,000 units and the cost per vehicle becomes...$3333. At 200,000 units the cost per vehicle drops to $2500 per unit. At 200,001 units the cost is $0. Fully recouped. All it takes is volume.
|
|
|
|
|
Replying to: euphonium (Apr 27, 2008 6:25 pm) True the U.S. has moved beyond the old industry type metal pollution, or at least we have laws that try to limit discharges and emissions. But, the U.S. just moved on to the next phase: Nanoparticles http://ec.europa.eu/health/opinions2/en/nanotechnologies/l-2/6-health-effects-na- noparticles.htm Genetically modified (GM) foods http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetically_modified_food Invasive species http://invasivespecies.blogspot.com/ Pharmaceuticals, Hormones, and Other Organic Wastewater Contaminants in U.S. Streams http://toxics.usgs.gov/pubs/FS-027-02/ It was also interesting to see the piece at ENN regarding the introduction of the Tata Nano. http://www.enn.com/business/article/29401 When gas hits $4 a gallon I'll be buying a Nano - Nano as Robin Williams would say. |
|
|
|
|
Replying to: hondamatic1 (Apr 28, 2008 1:43 pm) I hope someone has heard that and remembers. I believe it was in the 20 acre range. That's a lot of corn not available for food or a lot of land not growning wheat or beans...
|
|
what i will do when gas gets to $4 a gal. i'll just think how bad its gotten for everyone else, since the rest of the world is already paying like $5 a gal. then i'll think how selfish we have become. and i'll probably look for ways around it, that will be eco friendly, cause if they are eco friendly, they will be profitable, and renewable.
|
|
|
Replying to: kdhspyder (Apr 28, 2008 4:04 pm)
|
|
|
Replying to: imidazol97 (Apr 28, 2008 5:16 pm) |
|
|
Replying to: gagrice (Apr 27, 2008 9:07 pm) The US manufacturers will produce electric cars. Chrysler has concept electric cars in development right now similar to the Tesla car, see the Dodge Zeo sports car. Electric cars as well as any alternative fuel car will play a vital role in our future when gas prices become astronomically high or we run out of oil completely. Imagine if every household was somewhat self-sufficient and had solar panels to power heating and cooling systems,electric appliances and recharge your electric car battery. It is being done today and is a reality. The technology will be further developed and the distance factor (to go to Vegas:) will be overcome, perhaps with solar panels on the roof and hood of the electric cars, or some other energy source such as an added hydrogen cell as seen in the Chrysler EcoVoyager concept car. Dupont just developed a kind of paint that is electrolytic and that it absorbs light and transfers the energy to metal rods in the form of electricity, which they are using right now to put on rooftops instead of installing solar panels. One day we may have no choice, our children will definately inherit the problems we have today and they will have to deal with it better than we ever did. No doubt we will figure a way to make the battery technology more environmentally friendly and built in the US to our standards ! I wonder if research into cold fusion will start up again. The time is right for new energy sources. I am still waiting for that Solar Satellite technology to become a reality and theoretically provide enough energy to meet the worlds needs (see European Space agency, and Space Island Group, Money magazine March 2006) and there is no danger from the narrow focused beam of microwaves that will be collected by microwave recievers on earth ! You will not get fried, although I can think of a few people who deserve to for not being open minded 
|
|
|
Replying to: gagrice (Apr 28, 2008 7:07 pm) GM's stated plan for the 2-Modes are Tahoe / Yukon Escalade Silverado / Sierra Vue Aura / Malibu It's best use though would be in the Lambda crossovers, the Enclave, Acadia, Outlook where it would jump the fuel economy from the low 20's to the high 20's or even 30 mpg. It's just like the HSD in the Highlander. It's just as capable and probably costs the same. For GM to reach 200,000 units of 2-Modes it should be a snap. As soon as that happens the system becomes $2500 cheaper ( Toyota method ) or that $2500 becomes pretax profit ( GM needs this ).
|
|
|
Replying to: lemko (Apr 28, 2008 4:30 am) Those are excellent opportunities for random sprint intervals - makes a great workout. You can get the same effect by riding on country roads with lots of farm dogs.  Not to mention the fact that the increased speed will cut down on your ride commute, although the added weight of the Beretta might slow you down. 
|
|
|
Replying to: flash11 (Apr 28, 2008 7:27 pm) The car is FLAWED and poorly engineered. Now they have disgruntled customers that were promised cars last year. They are being sued for millions owed suppliers. It may have been a good idea. Just not good timing. Tables turned: Tesla Motors sued by transmission supplier Magna Posted Apr 16th 2008 1:58PM by Dan Roth Magna doesn't seem upset that it was just a stepping stone – that's business. What the company would like, however, is to get paid for the work it performed. Magna is also telling Tesla "told you so" by claiming to have suggested a single-speed unit back in 2006. To recover its $5.6 million, Magna has filed suit in San Mateo to force the issue, which coincidentally comes not long after Tesla filed suit against Fisker, which it initially hired to designs its next product, the WhiteStar sedan. What goes around comes around, we guess. The legal wranglings haven't yet made a dent in Tesla's operations, but Magna's lawsuit could bolster the case of frustrated buyers who have yet to receive their cars, should those customers decide to also take to the courts. |
|
You are here:
Forums
Automotive News & Views Are gas prices fueling your pain?
New? Join Now!
Forum Tools
Search Forums
Browse by Vehicle
Browse by Board
Browse by Topic
Today's Chats
