Edmunds.com | Inside Line | Auto Observer Your Account | Help | Directory
You are here:
![[F]](http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/townhall/webxicons/site.gif){kind=small}
Forums
Automotive News & Views Are gas prices fueling your pain? 
10042 messages, Last post on Jul 12, 2008 at 3:07 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
|
Replying to: lemko (Mar 13, 2008 5:07 am) Speaking of riding in vehicles as a kid, my favorite was riding in the bed of my uncle's pickup, in town. Many times he'd go out of his way to hit the bumps, and we loved it. Yes it was more dangerous than sitting in a car seat, but many fun things are dangerous. As far as bike-riding ... I do that between may and Oct. only when the weather is nice. You'd have to be a masochist to ride a bike now in this area, between the cold, ice and sand on the roads and sidewalks, and the ever-enlarging potholes. I'd find a carpool, or take a cab, or move before ever trying to make biking a way to get around in this climate.
|
|
|
Replying to: andre1969 (Mar 13, 2008 4:37 am) |
|
|
Replying to: kernick (Mar 13, 2008 6:14 am) I went to a private school in 7th and 8th grade where you had to pay extra to ride the school bus, and it didn't come out our way anyway. So we joined a carpool. My Mom & stepdad both worked, and my grandmother was still working too, so Granddad drove us. He had a '76 GMC crew cab pickup, and on nice days he'd let us ride in the back. We must've looked like a bunch of hicks pulling up to that school, dressed in our nice uniforms, hopping out of the bed of that pickup truck, but it sure was fun! This was like 1983-1984. I imagine the cops would have a fit nowadays. Electric was very expensive due to overruns at a nuclear plant, but now it is more competitive. Doesn't electric heat tend to get less and less competitive, the further north you go? Now where I'm at, in the Maryland suburbs east of DC, it usually doesn't get THAT cold. Heat pumps seem to be the HVAC method of choice. But once you get further north, those things pull less and less heat out of the air, and start relying on full electric backup, and then things can get really expensive. I know those little strip electric baseboard heaters can be horribly expensive as well. When I bought my condo in late 1994, it still had its original equipment 1972 Rheem electric furnace. That sucker was expensive to run. It was easy to get electric bills as high as $350 in the winter. Some of my neighbors said their bills got to $400-500! I replaced the whole system around 1996 with a heat pump, and I think my worst monthly bill was only around $200 after that. Oil and propane are the 2 main fuels. I've always wondered about propane. Is it very cost-effective as a heating/cooking fuel? Natural gas has always scared me. I know there are all sorts of safeguards built into the systems to keep them from blowing up. And I'm sure it's very rare that a natural gas system does blow up. But I just can't get it out of my mind. Guess the same thing could happen with propane, too. One factor might be that when a natural gas home does blow up, it makes the news. It's spectacular enough to be newsworthy, and that probably sensationalizes it, puts it fresh in my mind, and makes it seem more common than it really is. Plus, it's a common cliche in the movies. You don't hear about heat pumps or oil furnaces blowing up, though. Although last May, someone parked a Honda Accord next to the oil tank of an old vacant house two doors down from me and lit it on fire. Burnt the Accord to a crisp, but thankfully the fire dept got to it before it caught the house on fire. I know heating oil won't blow up like natural gas, but I'm sure it would still help fan the flames, so to speak! 
|
|
|
|
|
Replying to: tedebear (Mar 12, 2008 5:21 pm) Yep.... bicycle rage. I use to bicycle to work years ago in Houston TX and it was in the bad economic times of the mid to late eighties (Houston basically collapsed into a financial tailspin) and had an entire shoulder to myself.... no impedance of traffic at all but you still got the occasional horn. You got the palpable sense that some motorists literally hated your guts, like you were getting away with something..... SUV's were not the fully developed monster-trend back then like they are now, I can only imagine it's worse now. Very strange behavior. I started carrying pepper spray - and it wasn't for dogs!!!! I guess some mental midgets never grow up passed Jr. High and keep the "good old days" of picking on the runt in the hallway (the bicyclist) going. Probably the same dolts that buy an SUV without the proper financial ability...... maybe they're going to start bullying McFly for gas money now instead of cafeteria lunch money. Just a note, I'm not an SUV basher - I think they have their place and are useful but I see too many people using them for inappropriate activity. If you're driving to work, Monday thru Friday, one person, SUV, and you're work doesn't involve transporting big objects, you have no grounds to complain about gas prices - you will get no empathy from this snarky poster....
|
|
|
Replying to: andre1969 (Mar 13, 2008 6:45 am) Idaho Power keeps asking for rate increases because they have to use more natural gas (and coal) when the hydro production falls due to low water. A decade ago, they were a favorite company of investors because they didn't have any nuclear exposure back when the cost overuns were hurting stock prices of other utility companies. They did some fuel cell research (via Ballard Research) but mostly they don't seem to have any interest in wind or solar or any other alternative to petroleum and coal. New hydro sites are pretty limited. |
|
|
Replying to: andre1969 (Mar 13, 2008 6:45 am) I've only had a heat pump once, when we had a place in northern Indiana, and it was great. It had a natural gas backup furnace rather than electric, so once it was too cold outside to move enough heat, it ran like a regular natural gas forced air furnace. That was around 20 - 30 degrees F. Heat pumps don't make heat, they just move it, so use about 1/3 the energy of a system that has to make heat. But as air temps go down, there is less and less heat to extract from the air to move into the house. Also, the duct air temp is cooler than with a conventional heater, so even though it's blowing 80 degree air, it can feel cool to the skin if the vent is blowing right where you are sitting. They also run in reverse in the summer to provide your A/C. The best way to use a heat pump is a geothermal. Rather than the outside heat exchanger sitting above ground and exchanging heat with the air, the exchanger is under ground where the earth stays around 50 degrees year round. That really lets it work well to pull in heatfrom the ground and move it into your house in the winter time and to dump heat into the ground in the summer time to cool your house in the summer. Our current place (in Montana) is natural gas forced air. I wish we could have had a heat pump. It's a high-efficiency furnace and our electric and gas bill combined rarely climbed above $120 this winter (and that was a month with a week long negative 30 degree snap). We plan to build a new house in the next couple years and have a whole folder on all the efficient/green building techniques that we will employ, include a geothermal heat pump. Oh, and just so this stays a little on topic regarding gas...living at around 5,000 feet above sea level vs. at sea level has had the expected impact on my gas mileage. Increased it by just over 10% in my 2003 Chev. Avalanche (5.3 liter 4x4). On long highway cruises at 70mph, I used to get 17mpg. Up here I easily pull 19 mpg and often get 20 or 21mpg if I make the same drive (90 miles) at 65mph. On my drive to and from work, which is a short 9 mile commute, even this short trip will give me 19 - 20mpg because it's on a straight highway with no stops and about a 60mph drive. As expected, I have less pep at full throttle, but I rarely do that anyway (I try and drive reasonable to get the best mileage). At sea level it was rated at 285hp. I'm not sure what that is down to up here at elevation, but it's never been an issue pulling pretty heavy trailers. I just don't understand the horsepower wars for the 1/2 ton truck segment. All the new technology (like variable valve timing) that could be used to improve mileage is instead squandered on making more hp while retaining the same gas mileage. But then we can't blame the manfacturers for that. They make what buyers demand. Buyers rarely buy the lower hp version of vehicles. They buy their trucks and SUV with the largest, highest hp engine offered. And car buyers do the same. They buy the high output version of a V6 rather than the lower hp V6 or I4 versions. The small engined versions sit on dealer lots unsold. Then those same people that "must have" the 330hp version engine in their trucks drive 85mph, jackrabbit start, don't time stoplights and then complain about the poor mileage they are getting and also the price of gas. To that I say life's all about choices so don't complain about the ones you make and then not take responsibility for them. My truck is payed off and I keep looking at buying an addition, better mileage vehicle, but I can't really justify buying one. I need to keep my truck for towing and hauling. Besides, I really put so few miles on it a year, I can't justify buying another vehicle just for mileage. We have my wife's car to do most other driving (30+mpg) and for 7 months out of the year (down to about 19 degrees F.) I ride one of my motorcyces to and from work and for most errands. One gets 40mpg and the other get 70mpg. I've always wondered about propane. Is it very cost-effective as a heating/cooking fuel? Natural gas has always scared me. I know there are all sorts of safeguards built into the systems to keep them from blowing up. And I'm sure it's very rare that a natural gas system does blow up. But I just can't get it out of my mind. Guess the same thing could happen with propane, too. No need to worry about 'blowing up'. That is a movie thing. You are more likely to perish in a regular house fire (wiring, accident, etc.) than be blown up by natural gas. As a matter of fact, you are probably more likely to be struck by lightening while being attacked by a wolverine in a plane as it crashes. They even did a segment on mythbusters about a house blowing up and the amount of gas it took was incredible, and even then it was a weird burst thing and not the big explosive fireball they do in the movies. With that much gas in a house, you would be dead from breathing it before it blew up. And even a gas leak big enough to cause you to pass out or die just doesn't happen (that is another reaon, though, they have the sulpher/rotten egg smell added to natural gas (and propane) because otherwise those gasses have no scent. The bigger problem is people not having their furnace serviced and it cracking the heat exchanger or having a plugged flue and the Carbon Dioxide (CO2) getting into the house. But then, everyone that has a gas (natural gas or propane) furnace or water heater has a CO2 monitor in their house, right? (hint: you should. They are cheap at any walmart and less maintenance than a canary). |
|
|
Replying to: ponderpoint (Mar 13, 2008 6:58 am) It's usually not like that but I guess yesterday was not usual. Another driver blasted his horn as he went past, when I was already hugging the white line and no shoulder available. Gas price finally eclipsed the $3.00 barrier here. It went from $2.96 on Monday to $3.09 Tuesday. Sensing a price increase I filled up on Monday, drove home and it has been parked ever since. If I keep riding, except on rainy days, I might not have to fill up until the end of the month. Speaking of home heating, we did some major work to the house about a year ago that made a significant improvement to the insulation factor. I just received my latest natural gas bill of $274 for the month. I can't imagine what it would have been without the home improvements but I thought this price was ridiculous enough. The house is a little over 3,000 sq ft.
|
|
A reporter wants to interview people who have switched their daily driver from a truck or SUV to a car within the past 18 months. If you have done so, or if you are considering doing so, and care to share your story, please reply to jfallon edmunds.com no later than Monday, March 17, 2008 and include your daytime contact info and the makes/models involved.
|
|
|
Replying to: steve_ (Mar 13, 2008 7:11 am) Oil demand is reaching a point where either little more can be pumped, found, or refined, while electricity being based on more plentiful natural gas and coal can be more easily expanded. Which just brings this back around to my and many other people being more concerned about home-heating than gasoline. But since oil prices are affecting peoples' budgets, and that is affecting their ability to pay their mortgage and credit cards, and that is driving the economy down in general, the issue of higher gasoline/heating prices has a huge effect. Many trillions of $ of wealth have been wiped out in the housing and stock markets; far beyond the 10 or 20 billion extra $'s we're paying at the pumps. Andre - I believe the price of propane is very close to the heating oil price. But I think heating oil has slightly high energy/unit. Propane is a 3-carbon chain molecule, and I know the trend is that larger hydrocarbons have higher combustion energies. Also in the oil/propane vs. electric heating analysis, one must consider that the electric system is relatively simple and low maintenance (no burner or chimney cleaning, no ignition switches, and no air-intake and blower fans). If I built a new home right now it would have a wood pellet stove, supplemented by electric. I'd save the $ on installing a furnace and oil-tank. I'd also do an "instant water-heater" rather than a tank. |
|
|
A reporter wants to interview people who have switched their daily driver from a truck or SUV to a car within the past 18 months. If you have done so, or if you are considering doing so, and care to share your story, please reply to jfallonedmunds.com no later than Monday, March 17, 2008 and include your daytime contact info and the makes/models involved.
|
|
You are here:
Forums
Automotive News & Views Are gas prices fueling your pain?
New? Join Now!
Forum Tools
Search Forums
Browse by Vehicle
Browse by Board
Browse by Topic
Today's Chats
