Edmunds.com | Inside Line | Auto Observer Your Account | Help | Directory
You are here:
![[F]](http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/townhall/webxicons/site.gif){kind=small}
Forums
Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Land Rover LR2 Lease Questions
146 messages, Last post on Jul 16, 2008 at 11:50 PM
You are in the Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum. Your Hosts are car_man & kyfdx
|
So I am looking to lease the LR2. The best lease deal I've been offered is detailed below - it's the fees that are out of hand. LR2 - Blue on Tan - Cold Climate. MSRP = base 33,985 +700 cold climate +715 destination = $35,400 Selling price (gross cap cost) = $32,500 Cap Cost Redeuction = $2,500 Net Cap Cost = $30,000 24 months RV = .71 MF = .00193 (very good) Pretax = $309.16 per month Excise tax = $40.71 Sales Tax = $17.49 Month Pay = $367.36 For the most part, that is all well and fine, although it bugs me that Land Rover wants to roll the Excise Tax into my monthly payments AND TAX ME ON THE EXCISE TAX! Sounds like pure dealer/finance arm profit crap. The real problem is that because the dealer/sales drone knows I know all the ins and outs of leasing - plus all the numbers - I feel that they are just layering on BULLS*&* fees in order to make some money. To wit: Bank Fee of $595.00 So LR Finance can punch a few numbers into a computer? Doc Fee of $249.00 Sure, go photocopy the title flunky. And most ergregiosulsy, taxing, at 5% Massachusetts tax, not only the cap cost reduction of $2,500 which is fine, BUT THE BANK FEE OF $595???? They are trying to charge me tax on the excise tax PLUS tax on a fee to the finance company??? I've already got them to get rid of the $300 advertising fee crap (sure let me pay you to sell me a car). And the dealer/sales drone have the gaul to tell me that they are losing money on the deal. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I know I should tell them to shove it but I kinda like the game. Any thoughts regarding the fees/extortions, please pipe in. Bateman
|
|
|
|
|
Replying to: bateman1 (Aug 26, 2007 9:52 am) Dealers don't make any money on Tax that money is the states money. I have only had one person blow their top about the tax on ESCROWING excise/property tax. If you don't believe that the state requires that to be taxed then please call someone in your state treasurer's office and they will tell you that it MUST be. Somewhere I have a letter from the CT government confirming this I will see if I can find it. The bank fee is part of the cap cost so it must be taxed just like the doc fee. The majority of your complaints are just stupid TAXES go to the state. Neither Land Rover nor the dealer gets any profit from collecting taxes. If they do over collect for some reason then when the paperwork is submitted to the RMV a refund check will be cut back to you. All leases have acquisition fees attached to them. Sometimes they are called bank fees. In fact $595 is fairly reasonable for a bank fee. Last time I did a Chase lease the bank fee was $995. A 249 doc fee is very reasonable. Some of the dealers in my area charge 349 or more. As to your complaint that they are not losing money well they are at least as far as the sales department is concerned. The invoice price of your car is $32,578. That 300 dollar advertising fee is a legitimate fee that Land Rover charges all the dealerships in that market. You have a Cap cost of 32,500 listed so they are losing 78 dollars on the front end to make the sale. If that 32,500 cap cost includes the 595 acquisition fee then they are losing 673 dollars. So to sum up the 595 fee goes to Land Rover directly and is not being marked up a penny by the dealer. You can debate wither the doc fee is pure profit or not but even if it is it doesn't cover the 673 dollar loss on the car. And finally ALL TAXES GO TO THE STATE AND NOT DO THE DEALER OR LAND ROVER Why is that so hard for so called "leasing experts" to understand. Since you are such an expert why don't you calculate out what you would pay in excise tax on the LR2 if it was not escrowed into the lease. I guarantee that it is cheaper to have the excise tax escrowed into the lease. I have done the math for several different people and every time you come out ahead by including it in the lease. Over a two year lease you are only paying $977.04 in excise tax. If you paid it directly on a nearly 35,000 dollar vehicle I know Mass would charge you more. Plus this is more convenient since you never get a tax bill from the state. Also having the tax built into the lease saves you from getting a tax bill months and months after your lease ends. People hate when they have to pay tax on a car that they no longer have. You are complaining about a 5 percent tax on 40 bucks. That is only 2 bucks a month.  That is only half a percent of your total lease payment.
|
|
|
Replying to: stonefoxx (Aug 02, 2007 11:43 am)  . Car_man Host Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum |
|
|
Replying to: mcarl (Aug 07, 2007 12:11 pm) The X-Plan price should be better than any price that you would be able to negotiate on your own and you probably will not be able to negotiate an additional discount on top of it. You are correct, in theory if you go through the X-Plan the deals should be the same at all of the Land Rover dealers in your area. Car_man Host Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum |
|
|
Replying to: british_rover (Aug 20, 2007 11:02 am)  I know this is a forum for leasing, but, no one seems to be on the buying forum... british rover, Looked at LR2, salesman told me, "nothing to talk about on the price, it is on the sticker"...said something about 5.9 interest...I told him I had read on internet some people were buying them for 500 above invoice,....he did NOT mention Xplan pricing, whatever that is?? Told him I was going to sell my Tahoe myself.....I have a 2005 Chev. Tahoe LT, EXCELLENT CONDITION, FULLY loaded, everything EXCEPT navigation...bucket seats, third row, DVD entertainment pkg, towing pkg.,...38,700 miles, I owe too much money on it...don't think I can sell it for what it is worth...should I go to another salesman, ask for a deal figured with trade-in & also one figured with no trade-in??? Would the sales tax money from the trade-in make up for the cheaper price they will give me...may not can sell it myself unless I lose alot of money, but then again, they may not give me near enough for it...??? How do I get the best deal??? Wait longer to get a better deal on the price of the LR2? When did this model come out, April? When does the next one come out? Just wanted the base, none of the option pkgs., they are too expensive...don't need heated seats, etc.. Thanks. |
|
|
When the LR2 was first released I went to the dealer I had leased a Freelander from and asked for a lease price for the LR2 loaded, $39,950. With the minimum down, the lease price at 2 years and 12K miles was about $670, but because I was a past customer they offered me $635/month. Since then, nothing has changed. From all the posts I have read since that time, no one has gotten a better deal and in fact many people writing into this forum are still confused about lease prices from Land Rover, and the fact that there is nothing on their website and no incentives doesn't help. I am also surprised at how many people want to put down thousands more than necessary in order to lower their monthly payment? Don't they know this is a salesman trick; all you are doing is paying your high monthly payment in advance and artificially lowering your monthly payment; it is still the same deal only better for them because they get more of your money up front. I was in the market for an LR2 but I after I heard the lease price, and the purchase deal, I had to back out as it was all too rich for my blood. It is a shame so many people like this car and want to perceive it as an economical, entry level Land Rover, (as it use to be) but it clearly isn't anymore. I understand the frustration when you shop similar spec cars, like the BMW X3, and they have much lower, more attractive lease rates and incentives. This makes Land Rover look very overpriced and makes it look like they are not interested in volume sales or making profit through volume or even being competitive with cars in the same class. I really don't think this is a case of a very expensive, high cache, luxury SUV being too expensive and people who can't afford it being bitter about it. I would reserve that superior attitude for the RR Sport, don't you think? So what exactly are they interested in? Building reputation slowly, selling more in Europe, keeping exclusivity through price hikes, making a big buck on low volume and low overhead? Who knows? It isn't by offering incentives or volume sales that's for sure. I live in an affluent suburb of NYC where the price for a basic house starts at about one million, and in the past six months I have seen only two LR2's on the road driving through; no one in my town owns one (but there are a lot of BMW X3's and X5's). It's a shame really because I understand the price and cache of the RR Sport and the Range Rover; I don't understand the price and lease price for the LR2. Is it possible this will change in the near future? Could Land Rover increase volume for the US and offer BMW X3 type lease programs and thus make huge profits through volume sales? Probably not, because they can't; though I bet they know if they could they would sell tons of these cars and make big profits, much more than they make on it now regardless of how much we all know they mark it up.
|
|
|
|
|
Replying to: muddyy (Sep 16, 2007 2:24 pm) Land Rover simply doesn't have the volume to offer Lease deals like BMW and Mercedes do. Land Rover only sells 200,000 vehicles in the entire world and all of those vehicles are built in only two factories. The LR3, Range Rover and Range Rover Sport are built in Sollihul. The LR2 is built in Halewood alongside some Jags. Then you have the pending sale of Land Rover and Jaguar. That is causing problems on the production side of things and the finance side.
|
|
|
Replying to: british_rover (Sep 16, 2007 3:55 pm) BMW is making enormous profits on the X3 and they sell a ton of them because the lease deal and build quality is excellent. To imply, or directly state that BMW's X3 lease/sale price makes no profit for BMW is incorrect and, if believed, can easily cause people to somehow conclude that LR's lease price is fair (because BMW gives it away). Come on, BMW doesn't give anything away. If it's true that Land Rover "doesn't have the volume to offer lease deals like BMW" I would consider two points regarding this: 1. Doesn't that, by default, then admit that Land Rover's prices are inflated and unjustified in the US market for what they are selling, because they don't make enough cars for it to be a good deal? Isn't that, in effect, saying we are paying for their inefficiency, rather than, it's a great car worth a lot more money than a BMW X3? 2. If low volume production is the reason they can't sell at a fair market price, then how do you explain the old Freelander pricing, which was competitive? Yes, the LR2 is a better built car but it's still called Freelander in the UK and still looks a lot like the old one and is in fact it's successor. When was the last time you saw an upgrade in one model year that nearly doubled the previous model year's lease price? Maybe you were just "explaining" rather than defending. Perhaps you even agree with me. But I already know people think what you wrote, however, I just can't imagine how any auto or LR enthusiast thinks all this is okay (just because it can be explained by volume). Sure, some people have money to burn, I know that; but I also know "most" people who are attracted to this car think it is overpriced with one of the worst lease deals (if not "the" worst) in the industry.
|
|
|
|
|
Replying to: muddyy (Sep 16, 2007 4:56 pm) Right now they are decent Lease deals on the 2007 LR3 and there were decent lease deals on the 2007 Range Rover. They never came out with lease deals on the 2007 Range Sport because there was no left over ground stock. Most of the 2007 Range Rovers are sold now so the lease special will probably be discontinued at the end of the quarter if not earlier. I would like to see Land Rover provide better lease support for all of their vehicles but they will not do that. I have asked and they have basically given the same explanation I gave you. "We don't have the volume to support those kind of incentives. The cars sell fine on their own merits so their isn't a business case for increased incentives. We can't afford 9,000 or more dollars a car to move units that are moving at a good clip." A few things you probably don't know. Land Rover's Sollihul Plant is MAXED OUT. They can't build any more cars there they are at capacity and are barely satisfying demand as it is. Makes no sense to offer incentives on cars to move them faster when supply and demand are nearly equal. LR2s are also selling at a pretty big clip with very little exess supply. Could they sell a few more with a killer lease deal? Yeah but would it be enough to make a business case for several thousand dollars in incentives? I don't know Land Rover seems to think it would not. I would argue that BMW has the X3 over priced. You keep talking about lease deals and how the LR2 is over priced but an equivalent X3 is thousands of dollars more. A loaded LR2 is around 40,000 dollars. To get a similar equipment level in a X3 would put the price to around 50,000 dollars. Sure the X3 will lease for less but what about the poor schmucks who don't lease it? They got screwed. Land Rover has 4.9 percent for 60 months on the LR2. Take the 4.9 percent put 5,000 dollars down and you will have positive equity after 36 months assuming you don't blow the miles out. You can probably get that 40,000 dollar MSRP LR2 down to just under 38,000 with some hard negotiating too. Right now my dealership only has about a six week supply of LR2s, after we bought extra cars from port, and we are just getting into our busy season. A single busy month could wipe us out of cars which will require us to buy more cars from port further reducing national reserve inventories. I am sure other dealers are in the same situation.
|
|
|
Replying to: british_rover (Sep 16, 2007 5:51 pm)
|
|
You are here:
Forums
Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Land Rover LR2 Lease Questions
New? Join Now!
Forum Tools
Search Forums
Browse by Vehicle
2008 Land Rover LR2
Browse by Board
Browse by Topic
