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Chrysler 300 - AGAIN with the "crown sensitive" crutch/gambit!

18 messages,  Last post on Sep 15, 2009 at 4:33 PM

You are in the Chrysler 300/300C/300C SRT-8 Forum.

What is this discussion about? Chrysler 300, Chrysler, Sedan

Messages Page 2 of 2

#9 of 18 Re: [rerone1] by doctony

Apr 10, 2007 (9:08 am)

Replying to: rerone1 (Apr 09, 2007 12:29 pm)
On the 'crown sensitive' issue for the 300 series, I think it's a matter of Chrysler simply running out of options! When the "bolt and shim kit" [sic] to correct the pull to the right didn't work, well, what then? Ahhh, suddenly it became a matter of convincing [read: bamboozeling] Chrysler 300 owners that the right side pull was either "in their minds" [!], or this gem, "quite possibly used to 'front' wheel drive performance vehicles" although this excuse quickly fell apart when the 'crown sensitive' problem even effected AWD models! Then it was "the nature of the LX frame and vehicle itself" with the dealership admonishment, and get this now, "One should never take their hands off the wheel!" [!] so that HOLDING the vehicle straight to counter the pull to the right becomes somehow "normal" [!?] even though other model vehicles [GM, Ford, etc] don't do this!
 
The more I read the comments of 300 owners, the AWD models and V8 'C' inclusive, the more I am convinced that this 'crown sensitive' business is an engineering design flaw where compounding the problem is that a 'fix' is not available or simply doesn't work! So, you guessed it, the 300 owner gets dealership double-talk as in "relax ... you'll get used to it!"
 
I'll go one better! On one of the websites, a 300 owner sought the opinion of a wheel alignment independent expert and the response was "Sure, we can force [via front end mechanical tinkerings] the vehicle to run perfectly straight without the pull to the right ... but within a few months the tires will be chewed up!", so what does that suggest? It suggests to me a serious engineering design flaw under the rather handy guise of the vehicle being "crown sensitive." In effect, the Chrysler/dealership message to the 300 series owner is ... "live with it!"
 
Doc Tony

#10 of 18 Re: [doctony] by xtec

Apr 10, 2007 (11:12 am)

Replying to: doctony (Apr 10, 2007 9:08 am)
doc-
I have A '06 Charger with the same suspesion you have.I don't have your problem so its not the design.My car goes straight down the road,and the steering wheel is straight.The alignment problem is mostly on early built 2005 300.There is A Service bulletin for your problem so I don't know why your dealer didn't do this.They all know about this problem.The Service Bulletin # is tsb-0200304
the date of bulletin is Mar/12-2005.This is a revised version from their first bulletin that didn't solve the problem.You could go back to your dealer and ask them to perform this bulletin on your car.Or try a differant dealer.
I hope this helps,Good Luck

#11 of 18 Re: [xtec] by doctony

Apr 10, 2007 (1:47 pm)

Replying to: xtec (Apr 10, 2007 11:12 am)
Xtec-- This is what gets me tho', your Charger "does not have the problem" and that is the crux of this whole issue where the dealerships and Chrysler make with the "WHAT problem?" thing when it comes to the 300 series vehicles yet it was THEY who issued the 2005 TSB!
 
On my first rear-wheel V6 300 T, I had the "shim and bolt kit" performed and the problem remained although 'somewhat' lessened and that's why, out of total frustration, I moved to an AWD 300-T albeit same year model and there it was again and this ###$#$# [fill in the blank with the appropriate frustration word(s)] "crown sensitive" excuse for what, as in the case of your Charger, 'should' be NO pull whatsoever! Now THAT is normal -- NO PULL -- straight down the road 'without' the right hand pull and having to 'hold' it straight -- indeed!
 
You're right tho' in the sense that there are dealerships and then there are dealerships! Right now, I'm looking into the later year 2006/2007 300 C 'Hemi' AWD and/or a dealership that has better experience with whatever fix is out there but, in all fairness and hardly making myself to be any sort of an authority on vehicle suspension systems, to be sure, I'm to a great extent relating not just my own problems with this "crown sensitive" pull to the right business but a veritable wealth of 'other' websites and 'other' Chrysler 300 owners. This pull right problem pops up over and over and over again! The very fact that there was and is a Chrysler TSB is obviously telling in itself yet to hear some dealerships, it's a question of "getting used to it" if the quick-fix bolt and shim thing doesn't work which I feel is merely dealership 'make the problem go away' rhetorical nonsense.
 
BTW, the media rumblings are that the Mercedes/Chrysler "marriage" is on the rocks! So who knows what will happen next in terms of who makes the call on Chrysler 'looks', technology and engineering!
 
Doc Tony

#12 of 18 Re: [doctony] by xtec

Apr 10, 2007 (3:53 pm)

Replying to: doctony (Apr 10, 2007 1:47 pm)
doc-
If I remember right your in the Syracuse area.I lived in that area ,and I used to go to the Chrysler dealer in
Fayettville.At the time I went there they did good work,I'm not sure about now.I would if you can,get a 07 so you know most of the bugs are gone.I'm worried also about what going to happen to Chrysler,I've been buying Mopars for over 30yrs.Good Luck..

#13 of 18 Re: AGAIN with the "crown sensitive" crutch/gambit! [doctony] by batista

Apr 10, 2007 (5:14 pm)

Replying to: doctony (Mar 29, 2007 3:02 pm)
Doc Tony you are a hardcore Mopar man.
You are considering your 3rd 300?
I would have avoided DC after the first no fix.
I guess I am not very loyal. I have owned 2 chevys and one DC.

#14 of 18 Re: AGAIN with the "crown sensitive" crutch/gambit! [batista] by doctony

Apr 11, 2007 (8:23 am)

Replying to: batista (Apr 10, 2007 5:14 pm)
Well, it was a progressive kind of thing: When I first saw the new Chrysler 300 series model in 2005, I loved the looks of the car. It was unique and I felt the Mercedes influence on the vehicle or 'Euro' design, if you will, was rather striking! When the 'crown sensitive' thing happened and the 'bolt and shim kit' fix really didn't help matters, it was then that the first AWD models began appearing [if you recall there was an initial delay with the All Wheel Drive models] and this AWD option was a plus especially with the severe winters up here in the Adirondacks! Then too, I figured the 'crown sensitive' issue would be eliminated with the AWD model. It wasn't! Lessened, but not eliminated.
 
Further, as the model years went on [2006 model and then the first 2007's], the problem became much lessened and who is to say what design modifications were done when the 2005 models showed such a heavy propensity for the 'very' discernible right hand pull, AKA 'crown sensitive' issue.
 
I tried a 300 C 'Hemi' V8, late 2006 model, and the car was smooth and straight. Problem is when you make the move to the 'C' class V8 'Hemi' 'and' you want the AWD, well, the difference in trade-in plus up-front cash layout for the V8 Hemi with AWD can be considerable! But there are always deals or specials here and there or in some cases low mileage 'C' class vehicles available [including demo types] and the savings can be equally considerable. Sidebar: I really like that "magnesium pearl" paint scheme! As most know, including myself, when you buy brand spanking new, you 'pay' big too!
 
And there IS great truth to the axiom that the moment you drive off the lot with a brand new vehicle, thousands suddenly disappear in almost instant "depreciation" because even after a first owner driven 100 miles, yeah, 100 miles, the vehicle is suddenly "used" or, as they [read: the dealerships] say today, "pre-owned", not to mention getting banged for the taxes! But that's another thread where the owner gets the hit for the trade-in/trade-up and then the same vehicle is subsequently sold for thousands 'more' than when the owner was allowed for the trade-in! Akin to the 3 or 4 thousand dollar 'detail job' so to speak. Let's face it, dealerships are in the business of making a profit any way they can!
 
My gripe is having to deal with the bugs of a new model and then doing the up-trade thing for what was originally a 'known' [witness the 2005 TSB] problem but explained away with such terms as, you guessed it, "crown sensitivity" or, get this one, "overly sensitive tracking issues on 'certain' [emphasis mine] roadways" passed off as "the nature of the vehicle" with the word "vehicle" no doubt duly substituted ... for the word "beast."
 
Doc Tony
 
Hey! There's always the lottery!

#15 of 18 crown sensitivity & things by brit5

Sep 23, 2008 (9:31 am)

There are two issues here.
 
First issue is the incorrect jigging of a number of early C300's. This is a genuine manufacturing flaw & it is partly corrected by the offset bolt bandaid. Depepending on the magnitude of the jigging error, the offset bolts may or may not correct the problem, but the chassis fault itself cannot be fixed.
 
Second issue is crown sensitivity. This results from a deliberate design feature that is intended to give the front tires more "bite" in cornering & provide reduced understeer and sharp steering response that is normally completely absent in large heavy cars with long wheelbases. The front end geometry is similar in concept to that seen on a road grader -- the front wheels lean into the turn as they are deflected right or left. This greatly reduces lateral tire slip and sharpens steering response. It also introduces a pronounced crown sensitivity -- it is neither a manufacturing nor a design flaw and cannot be removed.
 
It is there for sure on a crowned road, but takes only a little steering pressure to correct, and on flat roads it is absent. I quite like the sharp response -- the car has amazing right-left transitional response & tracking despite its 4,000 lb weight, slow steering ratio and 120 in wheelbase. My 300C is enormously more agile than my 300M ever dreamed of being.
 
Chargers have exactly the same geometry & have identical steering response.
 
Some folks don't like it -- so be it. I'll keep mine, thank you very much

#16 of 18 Re: crown sensitivity & things [brit5] by smithed

Sep 25, 2008 (11:20 am)

Replying to: brit5 (Sep 23, 2008 9:31 am)
Can you describe what the incorrect "jigging" actually means?
 
Certainly my 2006 300C seems to run straight on flat surfaces (and like a scalded dog, as is said), and has some sensitivity to a crowned road, but only if I think about it.

#17 of 18 Re: crown sensitivity & things [smithed] by brit5

Oct 03, 2008 (7:15 am)

Replying to: smithed (Sep 25, 2008 11:20 am)
In this case jigging refers to the positioning of chasis components for welding and other assembly operations. The incorrectly aligned chasis assemblies had front suspension attachment points so far out of spec that there was insufficient alignment travel to make the vehicles run straight. Some cars could be more or less satisfactorily fixed by using offset bolts that increased alignment travel. Others were beyond remediation.

#18 of 18 Re: crown sensitivity & things [brit5] by pipex

Sep 15, 2009 (4:33 pm)

Replying to: brit5 (Oct 03, 2008 7:15 am)
There is a TSB for "pull to the right" problem
 
You have to move the "rack" and resecure it with new bolts.
 
I found the TSB myself and brought it in to the dealer. Wheel alignment guy said he had never been shown thyat TSB before. He proceeded to do mine and we road tested the car. I now have 62,000 miles on it and it;s still steers perfect.
 
After the first wheel alignment and nothing had changed, the dumbazz Service Manager told me that they were made to pull to the right so that in case of a medical emergence the car wouldn't drift into oncoming traffic. I informed him that he had a mental problem and should see a psychiatrist ASAP. lol

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