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BMW History and Engine Technology

52 messages,  Last post on Apr 03, 2007 at 12:44 AM

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#47 of 52 Re: BMW 2.5 V6 [shipo] by bruceomega Mar 28, 2007 (1:22 pm)
Replying to: shipo (Mar 26, 2007 8:25 pm) shipo,   Thanks for the information. I forgot about things like additonal plumbing and cooling, and you are correct, the 535 cars have bigger brakes than the 528s. In fact, the brake diameter on the 535s is the same as on the 550.   Bruce
#48 of 52 Catching up... by shipo Mar 28, 2007 (3:26 pm)
Sorry gang, Mrs. Shipo is working in Hong Kong this week and so in addition to picking up her half of the duties with the kids, I've had some pretty significant deliverables due this week. As such, I haven't had any time for recreational clicking.   brightness04   "The 3.2 M3 engine is the only high output engine (i.e. not a long stroke engine designed for torque) with more than 3 liter that ever got put into the 3 series, which happens to be BMW's core business. It has to resort to iron block for packaging reasons, as an aluminum block would have been too long to fit into the car, and still leave enough passenger/trunk volume plus crumple zones. That's the point that I have been making."   I think that's a matter of conjecture. With the expanding girth of late model BMWs; it seems to me that there should easily be enough room for a non-iron block 3.5 liter, maybe even a 4.0 liter I6. That said, anything above 3.0 liters is encroaching on the V8 realm, and as V8s are nearly as well balanced as I6s, there may well not ever be a need for BMW to build a new I6 above the 3.0 liter threshold.   As for the piezoelectric vibration band-aids and all of the other isolation steps that other makers have brought to bear on the problem, no thanks. I like feeling what's going on. I'm firmly in BlueGuyDotCom's camp here; the E90 is a step backwards in terms of isolation and damping. As such, your comment that said, "Regardless the virtues of V6 vs. I6 in the vibration department, Lexus achieved completely vibration-free cabin and steering long before BMW did; BMW is only catching up in that regard with the latest E90." is actually quite backwards in my opinion. From my perspective, the E90 has actually lost ground to Lexus in this regard, not caught up.   "Forged steel sleeves are probably stronger than the cylinder surface inside composite blocks, aluminum blocks or even cast iron blocks. Turbo engines tend to run hotter and more prone to detonation, so forged steel sleeve is a common tuner house trick. At the back their heads, the decision makers at BMW probably also wanted to avoid any chance of repeating the Alusil fiasco of the mid-90's."   Hmmm, I would have said, "Forged steel sleeves are probably more durable than the cylinder surface inside the composite blocks. I'm splitting that hair because as I understand it, the cylinder wall surfaces are harder than steel, just not as thick.   As for the "Galnikal fiasco" or "Nikasil fiasco", that really isn't relevant here. Why? BMW extensively tested those engines in Europe and had extremely good success with them. They had also used Nikasil liners on their motorcycles sold here in the States for some time before the M60 V8 was introduced over here. So why did Nikasil fail over here and only in cars? Apparently the higher heat of the motorcycle engine (that didn't require specific smog numbers) counteracted the effects of the higher sulfur North American fuels, and it was that extra sulfur that ate away at the Nikasil cylinder walls.   habitat1   "So how would a 911's "Boxer" 6 cylinder or BMW's V10 fit on your list?"   Regarding your Boxer six, boxer engines are generally referred to as "H" engines (Horizontally opposed), and as such, it was listed in my post as an H6. Boxer engines starting from H4s are perfectly balanced; however, unless the H4 is a two stroke, the whole torque reversal thing rears its ugly head again.   Regarding the V10, nope, not on my list. V10s are shakers. Period, full stop, the end. As such, no thanks.   "And, given that my former Honda S2000 and current TL had "out of balance" engines, what should I have noticed in my test drives? Vibration at certain rpms? "   Don't know. I've never been in an S2000 and my limited seat time in a TL is, well, just too limited. That said, Honda has been pretty good at band-aiding engine vibrations so you may not have felt anything.   circlew   Yeah, I'm a fan of Boxer engines. The plane that I'm looking for has a H6, and even though many folks have replaced that engine with larger and more powerful H4s, no thanks. The H6 is just soooo much smoother to fly behind.   bruceomega   Yeah, BMW pulled the same thing with the E39. When they went from the 540i & 528i lineup to the 540i, 530i & 525i lineup in 2001, the 525i got the brakes from the 528i while the 530i got the brakes from the 540i.   Best Regards, Shipo Replies to this message: brightness04 (Apr 03, 2007 12:44 am)
#49 of 52 How's this... by fedlawman Mar 31, 2007 (10:37 am)
...for an out-of-balance I4 and primitive suspension?   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NE-V3TaNGss Replies to this message: circlew (Mar 31, 2007 11:01 am)
#50 of 52 Re: How's this... [fedlawman] by circlew Mar 31, 2007 (11:01 am)
Replying to: fedlawman (Mar 31, 2007 10:37 am) That is some of the best driving I've ever seen!!   4 sleeves, really? That's what I'm talkin' 'bout! The sound was awesome as well. Taking turns like that are only in MY dreams! Balance and intuition at it's best. Patrick was vacuuming up the Manx! How the heck can you ever pass a guy like that??   Let me see...there is 10/10ths and then I would rate this as 100/10.   Outstanding!   Regards, OW
#51 of 52 Re: Catching up... [shipo] by brightness04 Apr 03, 2007 (12:44 am)
Replying to: shipo (Mar 28, 2007 3:26 pm) Girth is not the samething as length. Length is what's on short supply in a 3 series using I-6. They have already gone to run-flats to save length (reduce trunk length without reducing trunk volume). Boring out the cylinders would certainly have been much less costly than changing aluminum block to steel block or turbocharging . . . if they could have done that.   Well, many diehards thought E46 was a step back from E36, which was a step back from E30. None of their opinion matters unless they are punking down the money to buy new cars in large numbers.   BMW has to sell cars in a given market place, and make sure their products do not become massive warranty liabilities. US carmarket being the largest in the world, blaming fuel quality here is not going to prevent heads rolling for failing to account for that. If the US gas stations pumped peanut oil, BMW would be well advised to make their engines run well on peanut oil

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