Last post on Jul 06, 2009 at 5:52 PM
You are in the Future Vehicles - Archived Discussions
This discussion is ARCHIVED. To reactivate the discussion, post a request in the Lost? Ask the Future Vehicles Host for Directions! discussion.
What is this discussion about?
Subaru Impreza WRX STi, Subaru Impreza, Future Vehicle, Sedan
#640 of 1480 Re: 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX Second Opinion [dino001]
Jul 24, 2007 (1:26 pm)
Yeah, TSX is closer than the Accord, though actually the TSX is almost exactly the same size as the Legacy, and both are sedan only.
I guess the new WRX is close in size to this Legacy, and the next Legacy will likely grow, so we probably will see some cross shopping.
It's funny, when the 2002 came out, there was a guy shopping a WRX vs. an Isuzu Vehicross. Seriously.
I guess seeing Accord, Camry should not surprise me.
#641 of 1480 Re: 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX Second Opinion [ateixeira]
Jul 24, 2007 (2:18 pm)
I sort of seeing the new WRX as going after the original Legacy GT customer. I'm talking about the GT w/o leather, moonroof, which Subaru dropped a few years if you recall.
Also, I think Subaru should have called it the S-GT, and not the WRX, like they do in Japan. The reason being the "WRX" label carries certain "expectations" that no longer are true for this model and its new role within the Subaru lineup. I'm convinced that is part of all the negative hoopla we see here and elsewhere.
I also hope they offer an STI-lite, which falls in between the new WRX and the full-bore STI, that will address all those wanting a WRX, but are disappointed with this model. Keep the STI wide body flares and taut suspension. Give it 225/45x17 tires and the Legacy GT power rating.
#642 of 1480 Re: 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX Second Opinion [SubyTrojan]
Jul 24, 2007 (2:41 pm)
Yup, it is me in Nasioc. I even mistakenly started a thread on this, before it was locked.
#643 of 1480 Re: 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX Second Opinion [rsholland]
Jul 24, 2007 (2:43 pm)
Also, I think Subaru should have called it the S-GT, and not the WRX, like they do in Japan. The reason being the "WRX" label carries certain "expectations" that no longer are true for this model and its new role within the Subaru lineup.
I completely agree. I would have been perfectly okay with S-GT, considering the expectations one has from a WRX. This car seems to be attempting to snag a different clientele.
#644 of 1480 Re: 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX Second Opinion [ateixeira]
Jul 24, 2007 (2:59 pm)
I'm sure VDC+open diff cost more and they waited until they felt enough pressure from the market to choose safety over cost. They de-cheapened it and made it safer.
I got to call you out on this one. Yes, they switched the LSD for a VDC. But to state that the VDC, which is driven through sensors that are ALREADY present in a car like a WRX and software/firmware (fundamentally intended to brake individual wheels when speed differences are sensed or cut engine power when needed), "costs more" than an actual piece of equipment like an LSD, is simply stretching your already colorful imagination to the next level.
Just to put this in perspective, the $16K Impreza 2.5i comes with this "costly" feature that is also present in the LSD-less WRX.
Also, the Legacy GT Spec-B, comes with a VDC but HAS NOT excluded the LSD in the rear, like the WRX did.
So when somebody says Subaru did some serious elimination of equipment to be within a cost threshold (including eliminating the 4-pot/2-pot brakes from the prior generation and going back to small rotors and 2-pot/1-pot from several years ago), they would not be far off the mark.
But the point that a VDC type of situation is "safer" for bad drivers is dead true. Plus the fact that $10K Kias and $9K Chevy Aveos will now come with VDC, due to governmental mandates, makes this an option that Subaru has to provide. The interior has been re-engineered and that is a biggie for sure but has this new version gone far enough for a full re-design of the REX ? I doubt it.
#645 of 1480 Re: 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX Second Opinion [aaykay]
Jul 24, 2007 (8:29 pm)
"Just to put this in perspective, the $16K Impreza 2.5i comes with this "costly" feature that is also present in the LSD-less WRX."
Joe Spitz's site (http://www.cars101.com/subaru/impreza/wrxsti2008.html#prices) and that pricing chart on NASIOC both say that the $16-$17k base Imprezas do NOT come with VDC. I was expecting it to be standard throughout the lineup, but apparently it starts with the more expensive "Premium" trims.
p.s. Anyone interested in seeing the invoice prices for the new Impreza... they can be found at the link above. Not much spread between invoice and MSRP, means to me Subaru's really gonna push hard to have fewer incentives.
#646 of 1480 Re: 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX Second Opinion [jeffmc]
Jul 25, 2007 (5:11 am)
means to me Subaru's really gonna push hard to have fewer incentives.
Good luck with that. Interest rates are to stay for looong time - however, the current table is not as generous esp. for 48 and 60 month deals. Cash back may be curbed for some models, but that will depend on how well they sell.
I also suspect that those prices already include a $500-750 cushion "just in case" it's needed quickly (if not - better for them). In today's market consumers are conditioned not to even consider "regular" cars without some kind of incentive, so a smart manufacturer would already include it in their list price.
#647 of 1480 Re: 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX Second Opinion [jeffmc]
Jul 25, 2007 (5:47 am)
That's true about the $17K version of the 2.5i. But the $18K version of the 2.5i with a boat load of other features, has the VDC packaged within it. For around a 1000 bucks, you are getting a number of features, including the 6-CD changer, the All weather package (heated outside mirrors, dual setting heated seats, windshield wiper deicer), the Aero package etc and has VDC put on top of it....this essentially demonstrates how much a feature like the VDC costs the manufacturer, as opposed to equipment like the LSD.
I think a feature like the VDC should have been across the board, since it costs very little additional money, due to the sensors involved in making it work, being already present in all the Imprezas.
Maybe they want to keep the $17K version as a loss leader (with very few actually made) and then push the people onto the higher trim that costs a grand more but come with a whole lot more value. Taking a leaf from the way Lexus promotes a low-priced ES350, with even the leather as optional....while the fact of the matter is, not a single ES350 imported into the US, comes without leather.
#648 of 1480 Re: 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX Second Opinion [jeffmc]
Jul 25, 2007 (6:20 am)
Note omission of the semi closed deck block! Could this be correct? (turbo and normally aspirated blocks the same???)
#649 of 1480 An Education on VDC
Jul 25, 2007 (8:35 am)
I got to call you out on this one....VDC, which is driven through sensors that are ALREADY present in a car like a WRX
Not at all. That is so wrong it's not even funny.
VDC takes as inputs:
* steering angle sensor (new)
* yaw velocity sensor (also new)
* lateral acceleration sensor (yep, new as well)
* 4 wheel speed sensors (OK, from the ABS, not new)
* brake pressure sensor (new)
4 out of 5 of the inputs to the VDC system require new sensors! You are 80% wrong!
this essentially demonstrates how much a feature like the VDC costs the manufacturer
I disagree. Prices are not based on production costs, they are based on what the market will bear. The package is a bargain, but the bean counters can count on things like economies of scale to get their costs down.
For around a 1000 bucks