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2008 Subaru Impreza WRX - READ ONLY

1480 messages,  Last post on Jul 06, 2009 at 5:52 PM

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What is this discussion about? Subaru Impreza WRX STi, Subaru Impreza, Future Vehicle, Sedan

Messages Page 64 of 149

#626 of 1480 Re: 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX Second Opinion [dino001] by ateixeira

Jul 24, 2007 (10:48 am)

Replying to: dino001 (Jul 24, 2007 10:37 am)
OK, gotcha now. You almost gave me a heart attack there. I need to switch to decaf.
 
I doubt a limited-slip diff costs more than an open diff in its place plus VDC.
 
If it did, the WRX would have gotten VDC back in 2002. Subaru launched the Outback VDC in 2001, I believe.
 
I'm sure VDC+open diff cost more and they waited until they felt enough pressure from the market to choose safety over cost. They de-cheapened it and made it safer.
 
As for suspension, WRXs have always had lots of travel. Almost as if they were tuned for rally cross, not auto cross. A bit more clearance than competitors, too, perhaps because they expect more of their buyers to be in the snow belt.
 
I still don't agree about what buyers the WRX is chasing. The sedan will compete a bit with the Civic Si, maybe Sentra Spec V, I guess. I don't see it competing with Accords or Camrys.
 
The hatch? GTI and Mazda3 (including Speed3). Not A3, though, have you priced those with Quattro? You could get a Tribeca Limited for that kinda money.
 
Subaru still has AWD against those. FWD will turn off a lot of shoppers looking for performance. And fewer people will be turned off by the WRX's new interior.
 
I see it attracting the same people as before, and sealing the deal with a few more of those people.

#627 of 1480 Re: 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX Second Opinion [ateixeira] by dino001

Jul 24, 2007 (11:14 am)

Replying to: ateixeira (Jul 24, 2007 10:48 am)
I still don't agree about what buyers the WRX is chasing. The sedan will compete a bit with the Civic Si, maybe Sentra Spec V, I guess. I don't see it competing with Accords or Camrys.
  
The hatch? GTI and Mazda3 (including Speed3). Not A3, though, have you priced those with Quattro?
 
I guess we have to agree to disagree. Si, Sentra - wrong price segment - I see very few shelling extra 5+ grand to get WRX.
 
Speed3 is closer but still cheaper, even when factoring AWD as 1K - and I suspect it's the strongest competitor, as it offers more power, great looks and features and it reportedly handles better on streets than current WRX.
 
A3 - obviously I did not mean to imply they'd go after those who buy V6 AWD. I read somewhere 2.0T AWD's so considering current FWD starts 25.5K and AWD will cost 1 grand or so, it's close enough. Even w/o AWD you get better styling and (probably still) interior, badge, moonroof. For "premium oriented" people it is an equitable exchange for power and AWD, even if the total cost comes a little higher.
 
Finally - I'm not saying new WRX is competing w/ Accord or Camry. However, being in the same price segment as those coupe V6 versions their buyers are natural base for expansion and that's what I think Subaru is trying to tap with their "natural" base being more competitive than ever.

#628 of 1480 Re: 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX Second Opinion [dino001] by ateixeira

Jul 24, 2007 (11:25 am)

Replying to: dino001 (Jul 24, 2007 11:14 am)
I don't think street prices will be $5k apart, probably closer to $2-3k street prices. Isn't the Civic getting list prices?
 
AWD usually costs about $1750, so you're way low on the value of that.
 
Unless they changed things recently, the A3 only came with Quattro on the V6 model, priced in the mid $30s. Another price league, basically.
 
The VW R32 will have AWD and would compete with the WRX, and now the Subie actually has an interior that won't embarass itself in that company.

#629 of 1480 Re: 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX Second Opinion [dino001] by lilengineerboy

Jul 24, 2007 (11:44 am)

Replying to: dino001 (Jul 24, 2007 10:37 am)
WRX buyers will be the guys just out of college, single or married with no kids yet.
 
How many of those buy now Solara, Accord Coupe, and will buy Altima Coupe - all 6-cylinders (and minority will buy sedan). I bet quite a few. They buy them for looks, features, horsepower and price below 30 grand - and yes, Subaru wants them with their new WRX.
 
No guys buy Solaras
 
Also it looks like the R32 is only an automatic, so I don't think that is the same market (kind of the opposite of the Civic SI and MS6 market).

#630 of 1480 Re: 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX Second Opinion [ateixeira] by dino001

Jul 24, 2007 (11:45 am)

Replying to: ateixeira (Jul 24, 2007 11:25 am)
I just disagree with your entire premise that cars are in direct competition if they have the same drive system. It's more important what goes in minds of people buying them and what options they consider. So there is very easy to imagine somebody cross-shopping A3 2.0T w/ FWD for say 28K with WRX for the same price and weighing what they get. Not everybody is a racer and "has to have" AWD. So if the price, size, utitlity and performance are within reasonable match, the vehicles become competitors, even if unintended or not exactly in the same segment as designated by magazine people.

#631 of 1480 Re: 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX Second Opinion [lilengineerboy] by dino001

Jul 24, 2007 (11:45 am)

Replying to: lilengineerboy (Jul 24, 2007 11:44 am)
Also it looks like the R32 is only an automatic,
 
 

#632 of 1480 Re: 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX Second Opinion [dino001] by ateixeira

Jul 24, 2007 (12:00 pm)

Replying to: dino001 (Jul 24, 2007 11:45 am)
A3, though? We're talking about a FWD hatch from a luxury manufacturer. A premium hatch, an oxymoron in the USA.
 
They sell in such tiny numbers as to be almost insignificant in the overall market. If they dropped it noone would notice (VW would just sell more GTIs).
 
R32 is DSG, true, forgot about that.
 
WRX is unique in offering AWD plus a true manual trans at this price level.
 
So I guess it *has* to be cross shopped with cars with different powertrains. LOL
 
Still, Camry? Accord? I just don't see it.
 
Put it this way - if you end up buying one of those, you weren't truly serious about buying a performance car. thinking about it, maybe, but not seriously.
 
People may want a hot hatch, bang for the buck, or practical performance. All these paths would still lead you to a WRX on your short list.

#633 of 1480 Re: 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX Second Opinion [ateixeira] by dino001

Jul 24, 2007 (12:13 pm)

Replying to: ateixeira (Jul 24, 2007 12:00 pm)
I think here is where our communication breaks - WRX is not a performance car, IMHO (STI is). It is fast, but it's not really performance. So, as such it is legitimate to cross-shop it with more "mushy" cars, as long as their price and basic performance figures match - and there are a few.

#634 of 1480 Re: 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX Second Opinion [dino001] by ateixeira

Jul 24, 2007 (12:22 pm)

Replying to: dino001 (Jul 24, 2007 12:13 pm)
I see it as a sliding scale.
 
To me, the WRX is closer to the STI than it is to the Camry. Especially if you tune it (springs, sways, tires, maybe a chip).
 
My litmus test it simple - would it be as fun as my Miata? The WRX is quicker and I could use it all seasons. It would pass that test.
 
Camry would fail. If I won a free Camry in a contest, I would give it to my wife. Yes, I would still drive a 14 year old Miata and give my wife the brand new car I got for free.
 
Toyota makes great cars - I own a Sienna! Don't get me wrong. Wonderful vehicles for passengers to be in comfort. Spacious, quiet, we love our van.
 
I just don't want to drive it when I don't need to, it's just no fun at all.

#635 of 1480 Re: 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX Second Opinion [ateixeira] by dino001

Jul 24, 2007 (12:41 pm)

Replying to: ateixeira (Jul 24, 2007 12:22 pm)
Well I know it's semantics, but fun yes, performance - not really. WRX makes a relatively short leap to STI in certain aspects, but pricewise, extra 5-8 grand is whole lot of mullah (assuming new STI will a little short of 35K on the sticker).
 
And Camry is probably worst example. It was probably mentioned as one of those extreme figurative speach points rather than real. However, new Altima Coupe or Accord are more relevant

Messages Page 64 of 149

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