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2008 Subaru Impreza WRX - READ ONLY

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What is this discussion about? Subaru Impreza WRX STi, Subaru Impreza, Future Vehicle, Sedan

Messages Page 63 of 148

#620 of 1480 Re: 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX Second Opinion [SubyTrojan] by ateixeira

Jul 24, 2007 (8:44 am)

Replying to: SubyTrojan (Jul 23, 2007 2:41 pm)
Overall, the stock 2008 WRX is better than a stock 2002-2007 WRX.
 
Thanks and yes I read your entire review.
 
Apparently I'm the only one that did, because some people here still didn't get the point you made above, and I've highlighted again.
 
Certain people here would do themselves a huge favor if they read your full review and then went to test drive a Camry. I'm fairly certain they feel nothing at all alike.

#621 of 1480 Re: 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX Second Opinion [SubyTrojan] by aaykay

Jul 24, 2007 (9:03 am)

Replying to: SubyTrojan (Jul 24, 2007 12:25 am)
It has been confirmed on NASIOC that the front brake disc part numbers on the 2008 WRX match the front brake disc P/Ns of the Subaru Outback 2.5 XT.
 
Thanks for the clarification. That certainly clears things up ! The OB 2.5XT has smaller discs than the GT and matches with what I stated when I observed the car during the NY Auto Show. Basically the 07 REX has 11.5/11.3 front/rear and the OB XT has 11.5/10.6 front/rear brake discs.
 
The brake discs on the WRX NY show car were clearly smaller than the Legacy 3.0R parked next to it but some of the folks here (I believe Paisan) kept on insisting that the discs on the new REX are the GT's larger discs.
 
Either way, since I am waiting for the 09 STI to get here, I am not impacted !

#622 of 1480 Re: 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX Second Opinion [ateixeira] by dino001

Jul 24, 2007 (9:15 am)

Replying to: ateixeira (Jul 24, 2007 8:44 am)
I got the point and I could see its reasoning. In my opinion, much more relevant question is it better enough to warrant its "legend reborn" spin (definitely not) and more importantly to fend off new found competition in a segment of what I may call fast and/or premium compact car. Compared to introduction in 2002, the world changed considerably. There is stiffening competitive pressure from below (Speed3, new SRT-4) and above (A3) and at level GTI/GLI). Those cars are getting visibly better at what they are trying to offer. All of these vehicles have something strong going for them, from price to eqipment (both lux and hardware), to plain number horsepower, to styling, to handling. What does Subaru do? They CHEAPEN their AWD offering compared to its predecessors soften the suspension and make it look like Sebring from the front. They want to shed the "boy-racer" crowd and I think they will be successfull.
 
How are they trying to compensate? Here is when the whole Camry comes in picture. - and it is not so irrelevant, as one may imagine. Hear me on this: WRX goes mainstream - i.e. trying to attract crowd sensitive to "fluff factor". Those people would touch old WRX because its high because road noise, not so nice interior, boy-racer image, but still want strong horsepower (number is very important to them) and price below 30K. Q: What do these people buy today? A: Six cylinder versions of Camry, Accord or Altima.
 
So lets assume the "racer people" (hardcore, weekend and wanna-be's) are gone (bye Steve ). Has Subaru done enough with WRX to attract "V6 midsize FWD for 25-30K people"?. Answer: I don't think so. They're trying to eat the cake and still have it.

#623 of 1480 Re: 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX Second Opinion [aaykay] by SubyTrojan

Jul 24, 2007 (9:46 am)

Replying to: aaykay (Jul 24, 2007 9:03 am)
aaykay, are you akoshy on NASIOC?
 
If so, the brake information I was referring to I obtained from the "2008 Impreza: Official Pics and Info" thread stickied as the top thread in the News & Rumors section.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1237429
 
Someone with the latest electronics part catalog accessed looked up and supplied us with the front brake rotor info.

#624 of 1480 Re: 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX Second Opinion [dino001] by ateixeira

Jul 24, 2007 (10:23 am)

Replying to: dino001 (Jul 24, 2007 9:15 am)
Meh, to me, "Legend Reborn" is pure marketing nonsense. I'm sure Kia's marketing would have you believe they make the best cars in the world, too. So what? It's meaningless.
 
Get TiVO. Honestly. Stop watching commercials, and you just won't care any more. I don't.
 
We agree that the competition is much stiffer than it was in 2002.
 
We disagree about the "cheapening" of the WRX. Adding refinement does not make it cheaper, in terms of feel or otherwise.
 
In fact, I think the exact opposite is true. The 2002 had knock-out performance, arguably better vs. its lesser competition back then.
 
But...it felt cheap! The interior had to make all sorts of apologies. It was cheaper back then, not now. People were turned off by:
 
* hard plastics
* non-lined storage bins everywhere
* thin carpets
* thin paint that chipped easily
* thin and easy to dent sheetmetal
* Neon headlights, far worse than any Sebring
* missing content from JDM US models (STI had no stereo!)
* lack of door frames, glass that rattled
* cramped rear seating
* no moonroof, no heated seats, no leather, no nothing
 
The 2002 was all about cheap speed, and yes it felt cheap.
 
So here's my question, where were you in 2002? Perhaps it is pure nostalgia but the memory of more than a few people in this thread is failing them.
 
The 2008 model looks far more refined. The interior will not turn off people not willing to make an all-out sacrifice just for speed. It's no longer cheap speed, but just speed, I suppose.
 
I also disagree about the "soften the suspension" comment, did you drive one yet? The outgoing one was too softly sprung, and needed springs and sway bar upgrades, plus tires, out of the box.
 
How has that changed? The 2008 is not softer than the 2007, how would you even know if you haven't driven one, and those that have say it's better and the equipment tells us it slaloms a LOT faster now?
 
The 2008 interior (especially) looks 100 times better. It no longer looks out of place in its price class. Design is much better, you can now get NAV, the door frames will make the glass stop rattling when you slam the door, and there is actually room for legs in the rear seat. It's much less "cheap" now.
 
And no, it's not going after the Camry buyer, who is 15 years older and has 2.3 kids and a dog. That person isn't even aware of the drive wheels, doesn't take on-ramps at twice the posted speed, and doesn't know Petter Solberg from Peter Cottontail.
 
WRX buyers will be the guys just out of college, single or married with no kids yet. They like cars but don't necessarily make a hobby out of it, they just enjoy driving. They would also not be caught dead in a mainstream family sedan.

#625 of 1480 Re: 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX Second Opinion [ateixeira] by dino001

Jul 24, 2007 (10:37 am)

Replying to: ateixeira (Jul 24, 2007 10:23 am)
Oh - you misunderstood. I just said AWD was cheapened (LSD), not the car itself.
 
Regarding springs - I drove '07 was while engine was way better than my '03, I was not impressed by its suspension/steering feedback - at all. Now reports say '08 is even softer. Yes - I put it from others, not my own experience. When it comes, I'll drive it, but "I can't wait" factors is kind of gone by now.
 
And no, it's not going after the Camry buyer, who is 15 years older and has 2.3 kids and a dog.
 
That person buys 4-cylinder sedan, sometimes 6.
 
WRX buyers will be the guys just out of college, single or married with no kids yet.
 
How many of those buy now Solara, Accord Coupe, and will buy Altima Coupe - all 6-cylinders (and minority will buy sedan). I bet quite a few. They buy them for looks, features, horsepower and price below 30 grand - and yes, Subaru wants them with their new WRX.
 
* no moonroof, no heated seats, no leather, no nothing
 
Still no moonroof, no leather. So just heated seats - some Premium Pkg., indeed.

#626 of 1480 Re: 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX Second Opinion [dino001] by ateixeira

Jul 24, 2007 (10:48 am)

Replying to: dino001 (Jul 24, 2007 10:37 am)
OK, gotcha now. You almost gave me a heart attack there. I need to switch to decaf.
 
I doubt a limited-slip diff costs more than an open diff in its place plus VDC.
 
If it did, the WRX would have gotten VDC back in 2002. Subaru launched the Outback VDC in 2001, I believe.
 
I'm sure VDC+open diff cost more and they waited until they felt enough pressure from the market to choose safety over cost. They de-cheapened it and made it safer.
 
As for suspension, WRXs have always had lots of travel. Almost as if they were tuned for rally cross, not auto cross. A bit more clearance than competitors, too, perhaps because they expect more of their buyers to be in the snow belt.
 
I still don't agree about what buyers the WRX is chasing. The sedan will compete a bit with the Civic Si, maybe Sentra Spec V, I guess. I don't see it competing with Accords or Camrys.
 
The hatch? GTI and Mazda3 (including Speed3). Not A3, though, have you priced those with Quattro? You could get a Tribeca Limited for that kinda money.
 
Subaru still has AWD against those. FWD will turn off a lot of shoppers looking for performance. And fewer people will be turned off by the WRX's new interior.
 
I see it attracting the same people as before, and sealing the deal with a few more of those people.

#627 of 1480 Re: 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX Second Opinion [ateixeira] by dino001

Jul 24, 2007 (11:14 am)

Replying to: ateixeira (Jul 24, 2007 10:48 am)
I still don't agree about what buyers the WRX is chasing. The sedan will compete a bit with the Civic Si, maybe Sentra Spec V, I guess. I don't see it competing with Accords or Camrys.
  
The hatch? GTI and Mazda3 (including Speed3). Not A3, though, have you priced those with Quattro?
 
I guess we have to agree to disagree. Si, Sentra - wrong price segment - I see very few shelling extra 5+ grand to get WRX.
 
Speed3 is closer but still cheaper, even when factoring AWD as 1K - and I suspect it's the strongest competitor, as it offers more power, great looks and features and it reportedly handles better on streets than current WRX.
 
A3 - obviously I did not mean to imply they'd go after those who buy V6 AWD. I read somewhere 2.0T AWD's so considering current FWD starts 25.5K and AWD will cost 1 grand or so, it's close enough. Even w/o AWD you get better styling and (probably still) interior, badge, moonroof. For "premium oriented" people it is an equitable exchange for power and AWD, even if the total cost comes a little higher.
 
Finally - I'm not saying new WRX is competing w/ Accord or Camry. However, being in the same price segment as those coupe V6 versions their buyers are natural base for expansion and that's what I think Subaru is trying to tap with their "natural" base being more competitive than ever.

#628 of 1480 Re: 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX Second Opinion [dino001] by ateixeira

Jul 24, 2007 (11:25 am)

Replying to: dino001 (Jul 24, 2007 11:14 am)
I don't think street prices will be $5k apart, probably closer to $2-3k street prices. Isn't the Civic getting list prices?
 
AWD usually costs about $1750, so you're way low on the value of that.
 
Unless they changed things recently, the A3 only came with Quattro on the V6 model, priced in the mid $30s. Another price league, basically.
 
The VW R32 will have AWD and would compete with the WRX, and now the Subie actually has an interior that won't embarass itself in that company.

#629 of 1480 Re: 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX Second Opinion [dino001] by lilengineerboy

Jul 24, 2007 (11:44 am)

Replying to: dino001 (Jul 24, 2007 10:37 am)
WRX buyers will be the guys just out of college, single or married with no kids yet.
 
How many of those buy now Solara, Accord Coupe, and will buy Altima Coupe - all 6-cylinders (and minority will buy sedan). I bet quite a few. They buy them for looks, features, horsepower and price below 30 grand - and yes, Subaru wants them with their new WRX.
 
No guys buy Solaras
 
Also it looks like the R32 is only an automatic, so I don't think that is the same market (kind of the opposite of the Civic SI and MS6 market).

Messages Page 63 of 148

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