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2008 Subaru Impreza WRX - READ ONLY

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What is this discussion about? Subaru Impreza WRX STi, Subaru Impreza, Future Vehicle, Sedan

Messages Page 123 of 149

#1217 of 1480 Re: This forum seems dead [paisan] by aaykay

Mar 21, 2008 (12:09 pm)

Replying to: paisan (Mar 20, 2008 5:38 pm)
Subaru never breaks down their sales figures.

 
Mike, you are incorrect here. During the prior generation (during the initial years), Subaru provided clear numbers of the sales of their high-margin Turbo Impreza (WRX) models. They even had to increase the imports of the WRX, to satisfy the much higher than anticipated demand.
 
The current version (WRX not 2.5i) is hurting badly, which is why they are not offering any breakdown of the Impreza sales numbers. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to have perdicted this scenario, right at the point of the introduction of this model. The 2008 2.5i (as I have always stated) is a good value when compared to the prior generation but the 08 WRX is not so.
 
All the incentives that dino001 pointed out above, is not indicative of a hot model in its first sales year after a "full re-design". Even Edmunds pointed out how outdated the WRX appears beside the redesigned Ralliart Lancer.
 
Sure the WRX has gotten a couple of bells over the prior model and a couple of whistles got taken away from the prior model. If the objective of the new WRX is to compete against its currently unavailable predecessor, then yes, it might barely make it. And I think that is probably what the Subaru product planners shot for - try to slightly improve upon or maintain the performance of the prior model, while reducing the manufacturing costs. Now they are reaping the whirlwind from their short-sighted actions. A big difference from the approach that Nissan adopted when it came to their super-car, which they benchmarked against one of the world's best, the Porsche 911 Turbo, and beat it on every single performance parameter, while pricing it well below it.

#1218 of 1480 Re: This forum seems dead [aaykay] by ateixeira

Mar 21, 2008 (12:14 pm)

Replying to: aaykay (Mar 21, 2008 12:09 pm)
hurting badly
 
How do you know? You just said you don't have the data.

#1219 of 1480 Re: This forum seems dead [ateixeira] by aaykay

Mar 21, 2008 (12:21 pm)

Replying to: ateixeira (Mar 21, 2008 12:14 pm)
If they don't publish numbers, the clearest indication is the size of the incentives to move them out of the showrooms.

#1220 of 1480 Re: This forum seems dead [aaykay] by ateixeira

Mar 21, 2008 (12:26 pm)

Replying to: aaykay (Mar 21, 2008 12:21 pm)
It's still a gigantic $6000 leap in price from the 2.5i to the WRX.
 
Even in real-world prices, the 2.5i starts at $16k, the WRX at $22k. After incentives, still a huge markup.
 
I doubt they are hurting.

#1221 of 1480 Re: This forum seems dead [ateixeira] by aaykay

Mar 21, 2008 (12:40 pm)

Replying to: ateixeira (Mar 21, 2008 12:26 pm)
juice, maybe, maybe not. But large incentives are a sure-fire sign that they are having trouble selling it. No manufacturer will offer incentives, if they can sell the product without them. Even here in MN, which is Subaru country, the 08 Imprezas are having trouble being sold. As a potential buyer of the STI, I am happy that when it comes time for the purchase, I might be able to pick one for a bargain. We will see.
 
I just wish instead of trying to make some debatably incremental improvements on the prior model, they should have tried to bring back the original WRX magic, back into the line, by benchmarking on some other extraordinary product in the market. Something that would have excited the whole country and galvanized the rest of their lineup - as the original WRX did. As a fan of Subaru's engineering oriented outlook, I think this was a true missed opportunity for Subaru after 7 years of the prior model's run. When I say "wet dishrag", that is exactly how I feel about this WRX, which can be outrun by current day family cars like 280HP Toyota Camry and Honda Accords - something unthinkable when the original REX hit the land. I get the feeling that Subaru stood still when it came to the WRX, while the world marched on.

#1222 of 1480 Re: This forum seems dead [aaykay] by dino001

Mar 21, 2008 (12:50 pm)

Replying to: aaykay (Mar 21, 2008 12:40 pm)
I get the feeling that Subaru stood still when it came to the WRX, while the world marched on.
 
Ditto - or as I said many times already "it's not 2002 anymore".

#1223 of 1480 Re: This forum seems dead [aaykay] by paisan

Mar 21, 2008 (1:07 pm)

Replying to: aaykay (Mar 21, 2008 12:40 pm)
A few things....
 
Nissan GTR- This is a supercar priced at $70K, this is also coming from a company that is a full-line manufacturer, not a niche market player. You can't compare a GTR to an STi, cause you can get about 2 STis for ever GTR, and the GTR will sell for close to $100k when it actually arrives.
 
"WRX Needs the excitement of the 02 WRX"- This is simply NEVER EVER going to happen again, it was a one-time only dealio. No matter what you put in the 08 WRX it could never compare to the 02 WRX in terms of the excitement and leaps forward that Subaru took. So anyone who says "we need that excitement" is only fooling themselves.
 
"I want a LGT Wagon w/MT"- Very easy, get an Outback XT, and put on a set of Spec B Struts/Springs. You then essentially have a LGT. I've done this on countless cars and driven them. They feel as good or better than my LGT does.
 
"MS3" What are the overall sales figures on the MS3? My guess (and this is only a guess) is that they aren't exactly high in number. It's the old Supply and Demand curve thing. You can sell the MS3 MSRP all day long if you only sell 1 per dealership. I remember the days where no Toyotas ever had incentives or rebates on them and sold at or near MSRP across the board in record numbers. Now that was impressive, now you have $7k rebates on the Tundra, in it's 1st year of production!
 
-mike

#1224 of 1480 Re: This forum seems dead [ateixeira] by dino001

Mar 21, 2008 (1:09 pm)

Replying to: ateixeira (Mar 21, 2008 10:51 am)
It's hard to be able to make money while chasing the enthusiasts' dollar. You used Mazda and example, and so will I. Remember in the mid 90s, when Mazda had the RX7, the Miata, a tiny V6 MX3, a gorgeous MX6 coupe, a 626 V6 mid-size mainstream sedan with (GASP!) a manual transmission
 
I'm glad you mentioned Mazda, as they are perfect example. They got in trouble because they watered down their sporty appeal of their cars in favor of making them like Corolla/Camry. Remember last generation of 626 and Protege? While good value, they were so unispiring that they topped Toyota in being boring. It was new 6 then 3 and "zoom-zoom" slogan (i.e. bringing back the sportiness in handling even without big hp numbers) that brought them back from oblivion. Same happened to Nissan (that and their aggressive cost containment measures).
 
For me Subaru actually seems to be stepping into same route Mazda took in late 90s, trading those niche/enthusiast appeals for some elusive mainstream thing.

#1225 of 1480 Re: This forum seems dead [paisan] by aaykay

Mar 22, 2008 (8:07 am)

Replying to: paisan (Mar 21, 2008 1:07 pm)
Nissan GTR- This is a supercar priced at $70K, this is also coming from a company that is a full-line manufacturer, not a niche market player. You can't compare a GTR to an STi, cause you can get about 2 STis for ever GTR, and the GTR will sell for close to $100k when it actually arrives.
 
I think you missed my point completely here. I am not comparing the GTR to the STI at all, since these products operate in 2 completely different segments. I am comparing the strategy adopted by Nissan when they developed the GTR, to that employed by Subaru with the WRX. Nissan did not go to their prior version and put in some incremental touches, spiff it up a bit and did a "there you go". They did not go to a Mustang Cobra or some such product and try to thrash the daylights out of it by out-designing it - who would care for such a product ? But, what they did is to introduce a segmental game-changer by going for the jugular, and design bench-marking their upcoming product on the BEST available (a Porsche 911 Turbo) with a $50,000 price premium, and BEAT it in every single objective and subjective category and THEN introduced it to the marketplace. No incremental nonsense there.
  
"WRX Needs the excitement of the 02 WRX"- This is simply NEVER EVER going to happen again, it was a one-time only dealio. No matter what you put in the 08 WRX it could never compare to the 02 WRX in terms of the excitement and leaps forward that Subaru took. So anyone who says "we need that excitement" is only fooling themselves.
 
Whenever I hear statements like the above, I would state that we need more imagination around here (and in Subaru product planning circles). Constant and imaginative innovation with smart engineering, is the lifeblood of a manufacturer, especially for a niche/small player like Subaru. They can be imaginative/innovative without commiting design blunders like the original Tribeca, which even a pre-schooler could have told them is a disaster waiting to happen. They completely frittered away the overwhelming dominance they held with the original WRX by holding onto the same product for an inordinately long time with few changes and then introducing an underwhelming re-design after 7-8 excruciatingly long years....after several years of being panned in every single competitive comparison. Any thoughts as to why Honda constantly tinkers with the Accord and introduces a newer, completely re-designed and much improved variant into the marketplace, every 4 years, like clockwork ? Even if the prior version sells just fine (largest selling sedan in the country for retail sales - unlike Camry which sells to rental agencies in big numbers) ? Place a Honda Accord that you can buy today, and place it beside a Honda Accord that you could buy in 2001 and check the differences out, now drive both Accords around a bit, under varying conditions...should be an eye opener.
  
"MS3" What are the overall sales figures on the MS3? My guess (and this is only a guess) is that they aren't exactly high in number. It's the old Supply and Demand curve thing. You can sell the MS3 MSRP all day long if you only sell 1 per dealership.
 
Again, you are completely missing the point here. The purpose of the MS3 in the Mazda 3 lineup is not to be a huge seller by itself. It probably is able to barely break even for the manufacturer, as a product, when considered in isolation. However, the purpose of the MS3 is to function as a halo (but affordable) product in the Mazda 3 lineup, which will single-handedly be able to drive even larger sales volumes to the plain-jane M3. I think they succeeded famously there.

#1226 of 1480 Re: This forum seems dead [ateixeira] by lilengineerboy

Mar 22, 2008 (12:05 pm)

Replying to: ateixeira (Mar 21, 2008 10:51 am)
It's gone. Period. Too late. We don't like that they cancelled it, but I didn't buy one, so I can't complain. Two Subaru Crew regulars (Lucien and Frank) have that model, but Edmunds members do not represent the mainstream well. Apparently they bought 20% of the production for an entire month
 
I feel our 2005 2.5i Legacy wagon has been a great car. It gets great mileage for a mid-size AWD wagon, and doesn't feel overly underpowered because of the manual transmission. It does fine towing a small uHaul trailer or a small pop-up, hauls a bunch of bikes, is reasonably accommodating of a child seat (although this is a weak spot for it) and it was reasonably priced. It does 95% of everything we wanted and it does it well, and it has exhibited good build quality. Its just sad that it is our first and last new Subaru.
They no longer make a wagon period and are no longer supporting manual transmissions on most models. I would be interested in a 2004-5 WRX w/premium package, or a Legacy wagon like Mike's (I regret not getting at least the 2.5i limited, but the LGT Limited would've been fantastic), but nothing in their current line up appeals to me. It was like insult to injury when we would get those guaranteed trade in allowance things.
As they continue go to mainstream and there is less and less to distinguish them from other manufacturers, I fear they will go the way of Isuzu.

Messages Page 123 of 149

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