Last post on Sep 04, 2007 at 12:13 PM
You are in the Porsche 911
What is this discussion about?
Porsche 911, Chevrolet Corvette, Motorsports, Exterior, Suspension, Biodiesel, Coupe
#17 of 26 After a closer look,
Jul 19, 2007 (3:10 pm)
OK, what I should have said was the base model Corvette beat the top level Porsche Turbo. It did not beat the GT3. That was left for the Z06.
But, I think the evidence is there that suggests the Porsche falls down in handling through the corners and perhaps a power curve that is not broad enough.
If you look at the top speeds, the Porsche has that covered, as it should based on max HP numbers. So the Corvettes had to really make up some time in the turns. It makes me wonder if the rear engine layout is at the root of this?
#18 of 26 Can Car and Driver Drivers Drive? [trucktricks]
Jul 19, 2007 (7:02 pm)
Rather than "wondering" about Porsche's rear engine layout, you might want to check if Car and Driver's heads were in their rear ends when they came up with their results. In a slightly less "staged" environment, both the GT3 and 911 Turbo have posted considerably better lap times at Nurburgring than any Corvette:
Best Nurburgring Track Times
7:28 - 166.652 km/h - Porsche Carrera GT
7.39 - 161.575 km/h - Porsche 997 GT3
7:40 - 161.217 km/h - Porsche 997 Turbo
7:42 - 160.519 km/h – Ford GT
7:42.9 - 160.207 km/h - Corvette Z06
7:59 - 154.822 km/h - Corvette C6 Z51, company test driver Dave Hill
You don't think Car and Driver gets more advertising dollars from GM/Chevy than Porsche, now do you??
#19 of 26 Re: Where's the speed? [trucktricks]
Jul 20, 2007 (6:43 am)
Even Car and Driver concluded their "Lightening Lap" with the comment:
In truth, the Z06 wasn’t as satisfying to drive as the 911 GT3.
And frankly, that says just as much or more than their particlar weekend track times. Especially when you consider that their results, as habitat's post indicates, are inconsistent with Nurburgring results and many other road tests and competitive rack results.
For what it's worth, my brother and a few of his racing school friends have been approached several times by Car and Driver and the other auto magazines to participate in such "competitive" road tests, including at VIR. Only in rare cases has he done so, because they generally reject his condition that they allot adequate time for ample practice laps with each car and that they publish the full results of his best times with each. So, what do they do instead: take a mix of drivers with widely varying skills and limited experience with each car and put everyone together for a wild weekend at the track.
I'm not trying to discredit Car and Driver in particular. Most of the other monthly magazines do the same thing. But I would suggest that if you are hanging your hat on C&D track results to tell you which is the better sports car, your hat is on the ground, getting muddy. Take some professional driving courses yourself drive each/every option and make your own decision. That's waht I did, and I don't have any regrets.
#20 of 26 Re: Where's the speed? [redsoxgirl]
Jul 20, 2007 (9:07 am)
" ... comment:
In truth, the Z06 wasn’t as satisfying to drive as the 911 GT3.
And frankly, that says just as much or more than ... "
Problem is that for the rest of us $ do make a difference
when it comes to satisfaction. With the base Corvette being
advertised on radio here in the SF Bay Area at $40k this AM,
I could add Z51 and still come out less than $42k. What in
the 911 world competes, that isn't a decade or more old?
Sure I know a guy who got a write up in Classic Motorsports
with his 911 '72 RS Clone that is lots faster than my stock
engine C5 coupe but I enjoy the driving, not the work to
keep a heavily modded P Car on track. Mag articles are all
about fantasy, and for most the 911, especially with turbos
is just that, a fantasy. For those that make the leap to
the $70k range and get a Z06 instead of the base 911, they
seem to have a performance deal too. That is of course if
you want the performance and not just 'satisfaction'.
#21 of 26 Re: 911 vs. Z06 [circlew]
Jul 20, 2007 (11:50 am)
test drive both on your favorite road (if they let you) and you make the call. They are different and not cheap so don't listen to any of us. I don't care my 911 is slower than a Z06. In fact, my 911 is slower than my Chrysler 300C SRT8. I wanted a 911 since I was 10 and it's all matter to me.
#22 of 26 Re: 911 vs. Z06 [tomtomtom]
Jul 20, 2007 (2:13 pm)
In fact, my 911 is slower than my Chrysler 300C SRT8.
Is your 911 missing a cylinder? The Chrysler is competitive with my unmodified 2003 M5, but certainly not with the 911S's that I have driven.
#23 of 26 Re: 911 vs. Z06 [spiritinthesky]
Jul 20, 2007 (3:15 pm)
I have a non S Cab.
Non S Cab: 5.0sec
S Cab: 4.7sec
Car and Driver/ Road & Track
300C SRT8: 4.7sec
#24 of 26 Re: 911 vs. Z06 [tomtomtom]
Jul 20, 2007 (10:34 pm)
Porsche website: C2S Coupe: 4.6 sec
C&D/R&T/Motor Trend: 3.9 to 4.3 sec; average 4.1-4.2.
Assuming a similar level of conservatism in Porsche's non S Cab figures, you should still be at or ahead of the Chrysler. But, as you implied, there is a lot more to the 911 ownership experience than drag racing against a GM or Chrysler muscle car.
#25 of 26 Re: 911 vs. Z06 [tomtomtom]
Sep 01, 2007 (12:27 pm)
I test drove an 300C SRT-8 and found it satisfying for a large car but decided to go with a 330xi for my daily driver. At least I am getting better gas mileage/better handling! My CFO has one and he is delighted.
I will take your advice regarding the test drives...I think a test drive will be easier at both marquees now that credit has tightened and sales are down for big ticket toys and Mc Mansions.
BTW, I wanted a Vette since I was 10 and I'm glad I waited! In terms of sheer appearance, the C6 Vette does it for me in the looks department.
The 911 has to be built better and if at all like a BMW, the drive has to be at a much more refined/precise level. But I will see...
#26 of 26 Re: 911 vs. Z06 [circlew]
Sep 04, 2007 (12:13 pm)
my 997 Cab is my daily driver. I only use the CSRT8 when I need to buy some larger items. My wife's R Class is the family mover.
"The 911 has to be built better and if at all like a BMW, the drive has to be at a much more refined/precise level. But I will see... "
I think Porsche's built quality is as good (if not better) than BMW or other German autos. Our R already went to the shop 3 times for electronics issue since we got it last December. We also have some minor issues with the 2001 330CI we used to have.