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SUVs Ford Freestyle Death of the body-on-frame SUV?
106 messages, Last post on Sep 12, 2009 at 1:50 PM
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Replying to: motorhead15 (Jun 01, 2009 3:06 pm) For example, I would not like to be in a giant SUV involved in an accident with a smaller vehicle where some kids n the smaller vehicle was killed partly due to the fact that I was driving a vehicle much larger than I needed instead of something more reasonable that would not have caused some kids to get killed in the smaller car. But that's just me. Or in the 72 car pileup example, while the folks in the big SUVs may have been less injured (although I don't see any facts indicating that was the case in this example) they probably did cause more injuries to others due to their vehicles having more weight and probably not able to stop as quickly. If everyone in that 72 car pileup was driving mid-sized sedans and no-one was driving trucks or giant SUVs, then maybe the overall number of injuries would have been less. Again, some people look at the needs of themselves only while others look at society in a number of issues. I don't dispute the fact that in small vs large car collissions the large car will sustain less damage. I just think for society as a whole, the way to make the most drivers safe is to reduce the number of large vehicles on the road and not the other way around. And based on car sales, it looks like society is heading that way boosted by the price of gas and the price of cars...all a good thing. |
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Replying to: tclarke (Jun 01, 2009 2:00 pm) Totally off subject, but I think many folks in America are paranoid of regulations, while the lack of regulations is a major cause of the problems in the economy or the lack of gun control is what causes violence to result in deaths versus injuries (eg...a kid goes wacko with a gun is going to cause a lot more deaths than if he's goes wack with a knife). And on the other hand land use regulations are what allow you to live in single family developments instead of having a polluting factory next door to you. Or look at photos of LA or any big city in the 1970s as compared to today and you'll see the benefit of regulations pretty clearly. |
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I haven’t done any actual research on breaking distance differences between SUVs and small sedans. I suspect that the difference in braking distance is probably less than 5%. Considering the difference in weight, my SUV is much more efficient in braking than a smaller sedan like a Honda Accord/Civic or something similar. I have seen the rotors (braking surface) on a Honda Civic and they are about the size of a coffee saucer. The rotors on my Expedition are massive and closer in size to a large dinner plate. Ford knows that I might want to pack a half dozen people in my SUV, load it up with camping gear, a 9,000 pound boat and drive up and down the Rocky Mountains. Trust me when I say that the brakes on my SUV are massively oversized/over designed and are less prone to overheating/fading/failure than those on small front wheel drive cars. Speaking of front wheel drive, that’s another reason I like my Expedition. Rear wheel drive is far superior to front wheel drive. Ever wonder why the most expensive cars in the world use rear wheel drive and the cheapest ones use front wheel drive? It all boils down to this. If someone wants to buy an 8,500 pound F-350 pickup to drive and someone else wants to ride around in a 2,500 pound Honda Civic, that’s their choice. Personally I choose to allocate more of my financial resources to the cost of driving a larger, safer vehicle because safety is of paramount concern to me. Freedom of choice is what makes America the greatest country in the world! Everyone should keep one thing in mind when operating an automobile, it’s not a matter of if you will be in an automobile accident, but when. Choose wisely grsshoppers.
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Replying to: motorhead15 (Jun 03, 2009 12:34 pm) "Trust me when I say that the brakes on my SUV are massively oversized/over designed" are you an engineer for the government? Rollover rating on the Expedition is pretty poor too. You can avoid an accident with a smaller and more nimble vehicle. Luckily large body on frame SUVs are selling less every year, so you're right Americans are making their choices, and more smartly now too for everyone. Plus at least if you're going to spend the $$$ on an Expedition, do everyone else a favor and take a professional drivers course to keep those around you safe...happy driving and keep a safe distance in front of you and keep off the cell phone too. People driving huge SUVs are sort of like those legally carrying concealed weapons...sure it's legal, but they ought to take extra precautions.
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Replying to: bobw3 (Jun 03, 2009 3:40 pm) Poor rollover rating? Very few and I mean very few automobiles have a five star rollover rating. Almost every small sedan has a four-star rollover rating. The Expedition with all wheel drive also has a four star rating. I have the two wheel drive model which causes the rating to barely slip to a three star rating. I don’t worry about that too much though as rollovers are reasonably low with regard to the types of accidents that occur. Additionally, my Expedition has a plethora of safety technologies to minimize the chance for rollover. The statistic that I have is that the electronic stability control (ESC) reduces the chance of rollover 70 to 80%. This combined with the roll stability control (RSC), traction control etc. minimizes the chances of rollover in my Expedition. The interesting thing about the roll stability control on the Expedition is that it uses, among other things, a gyroscopic sensor, which monitors the roll and yaw of the vehicle approximately 100 times every second and can cut engine power while simultaneously engaging brakes either individually or collectively to maintain the vehicle’s stability. Yes Bob, certain types of avoidance accidents, like running into the back of someone, might be avoided by being able to quickly steer around them but staying a safe distance from them would accomplish the same thing. The accidents I worry about are not minor fender benders so much as someone running a red light doing 45 mph and hitting me in the drivers side or a head on collision. As I previously stated, if a 6,000 pound truck/SUV has a head on collision with a smaller vehicle weighing half as much, the people in the smaller car are eight times more likely to die than the person in the larger of the two vehicles. Another advantage of riding higher in my Expedition is that if I am hit in the driver side door by a Honda Civic or something similar, the main impact will be at the level of my feet. Consequently, if my Expedition impacts the driver’s side door of a Civic, the strongest part of my vehicle (the frame) will impact the Civic driver predominantly in the area where his vital organs are located. Personally speaking, I hope I never have to find out how safe my Expedition is and I pray to God that neither of us ends up seriously hurt in an auto accident. Bob it seems that you are worried about being hit by a big vehicle. Why don’t you just buy something of reasonable size and safety? Additionally Bob, if you want to come back at me, please come up with something substantive and not just some meaningless, factless, emotional filled dribble. I’m getting tired of schooling you and unless you can come up with something better than you have in your last three posts, I’ll probably just ignore you. You know all this talk about saving the world from killer SUVs is putting me in the mood to run out to my front yard, throw my arms around the nearest tree and give it a big ol’ hug. 
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Replying to: motorhead15 (Jun 03, 2009 10:17 pm) "How do I know the brakes are massively oversized on my Expedition you ask? Several things… It will go down long mountain grades with several thousand pounds of trailer behind it without any ill effects;" If there were ill effects simply from this then it shouldn't even be on the road...this is just an example of the brakes doing their basic job, not an example of them being massively oversized. "Additionally Bob, if you want to come back at me, please come up with something substantive and not just some meaningless, factless, emotional filled dribble." That may be your opinion, but there's no denying the fact, like you pointed out, that a person driving a huge SUV is 8 times more likely to kill somone in a smaller vehicle, so the less huge SUVs out on the roads the better for the millions of people who cannot afford to own, maintain and put gas in a $50,000 huge SUV. You ask why I don't buy something bigger, but of course you're missing the point again on the needs of society over individual needs. When you're sitting up there in your huge SUV that you don't need, why not try for a few seconds to think about the other drivers on the road and think about their safety. "As I previously stated, if a 6,000 pound truck/SUV has a head on collision with a smaller vehicle weighing half as much, the people in the smaller car are eight times more likely to die than the person in the larger of the two vehicles." This fact alone is reason why I think it's not responsible driving a 6,000 pound truck/SUV if you don't need to. The less of these types of vehicles on the road the less deaths there will be because the less likelyhood you'll have these types of collisions. The bottom line is that to me at least, the safety of the millions of people driving small and mediums sized vehicles is more important then the safety of the few individual wanting to drive these huge SUVs. You can respond if you want, but every fact you provide just proves my point more.
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Replying to: bobw3 (Jun 04, 2009 9:17 am)
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Replying to: volfangary (Jun 04, 2009 2:49 pm) Something sized liked a Highlander, Acadia, Pilot, etc will provide plenty of safety and the up-high feeling but won't be so damaging to smaller cars as the really huge SUVs. I'm not saying that owners of huge SUVs have to buy Smart cars, but just something more reasonble to their needs to provide themselves and others safety. Again...my opinion is that safety goes beyond my own safety. What about your friends and family? Are they all driving 6000lb SUVs all the time? If not then think about how much safer THEY would be if there were less 6000lb SUVs on the road...unless you're rich enough to buy all your friends and families 6000lb SUVs!
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Replying to: bobw3 (Jun 05, 2009 6:06 am) For the safety of one's family one should also seek to free our economy from the balance of payments deficit from our consumption of imported oil.
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Replying to: jim314 (Jun 05, 2009 7:12 am) Exactly...the problem with most Americans is that they are too short sighted and don't look much beyond the mirror when making decisions. Like little kids...they want everything right now and who cares about anyone else here now or in the future.
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