Last post on Apr 17, 2012 at 3:51 PM
You are in the Honda Pilot
What is this discussion about?
Chevrolet Tahoe, Honda Pilot, Isuzu Trooper, Ford Expedition, Dodge Durango, Ford Freestyle, Volvo XC90, SUV
#93 of 118 Re: Vehicle Safety [jim314]
Jun 18, 2009 (9:02 am)
"These are all legal vehicles"
Just because something is legal doesn't make it right...eg smoking in offices was legal even though at the time the 2nd hand smoke was killing co-workers, but it took years for the legal system to catch up with what was right. Car pollution standards that were legal 30 years ago that made the air unbreathable in many cities are now illegal. Again, it takes a long time for the legal system to get in line what society feels is the right thing to do.
Obviously people can drive whatever legal vehicle is out there. My point is not to castigate everyone drive a giant SUV, but just encourage them to think outside their box... My hope is that MPG standards will get so high that manufacturers will have to reduce the size of vehicles they produce just to meet the MPG standards. That will create the twofold benefit of less gas usage and less big cars competing wtih the small ones.
#94 of 118 Re: Vehicle Safety [bobw3]
Jun 18, 2009 (10:08 am)
but just encourage them to think outside their box... My hope is that MPG standards will get so high that manufacturers will have to reduce the size of vehicles
That's not encouraging people to think outside their box, that's forcing them into yours. But I still think we should relegate the political discussion to another venue. hint, hint!
SUVs and Smart Shopper
#96 of 118 Re: Vehicle Safety [bobw3]
Jun 18, 2009 (12:00 pm)
I really don't want to get into a pi$$ing match over how evil SUV's and their owners are, but I don't care what anyone drives or what others think of what I drive. I've had several SUV's over the years because I choose to tow a boat and a travel trailer. Plus we often bring our daughters friends along so, I occasionally have 6-8 people in the Expe. I like the SUV over a truck because it has a much better suspension for everyday driving, plus the extra room for passengers. But if the "high and mighty" econo car crowd win and make the SUV extinct, I'll just buy a diesel 3/4 ton truck and continue to use my boat and RV.
As for dangers on the road, obviously, I understand the physics of my 6000lb SUV broad siding a Civic. But, if a larger SUV like a Expedition/Tahoe/Suburban are so dangerous, how come they are so cheap to insure? I pay less than $60/mo on my 07 Expedition for full coverage with a 500k liability policy and $500 deductible. You'd think if the actuaries could prove that my driving a 6k lb SUV would mean I'm more likely to kill a family in a compact car, my rates would be much higher. I'm paying far less than I did for any car, and I have more liability coverage than I did then.
I did T-bone a person in a Grand Am with a Nissan Pathfinder about 6 years ago. I hit them right on the drivers door. I was going about 30mph (I was in an unfamiliar area and didn't see the stop light until I was basically in the intersection and it was raining (no question it was my fault). My air bad did not go off and she walked away unscratched. Did total her car though and did 7k damage to my 01 Pathfinder. You'd think by listening to this board, my accident should have killed the poor lady I hit.
#97 of 118 Re: Vehicle Safety [bobw3]
Jun 18, 2009 (5:51 pm)
Luckily large body on frame SUVs are selling less every year, so you're right Americans are making their choices, and more smartly now too for everyone.
That may be true but I just read an article yesterday saying that the dealers are selling every SUV and pickup on their lots. Supply is short because of the GM/Chrysler situation. Likewise, the prices on used Suburbans, etc are on the rise again.
Jun 19, 2009 (7:48 am)
It’s easier to control the rate of deformation of a uni-body vehicle than a full frame vehicle, which is probably a good thing in a low speed impact. Taking the Chevrolet Traverse, which someone earlier said does not have a frame. The weight listed on the Traverse is about 5,000 pounds. According to a certified “CAT” scale, the weight on my Expedition with a full tank of fuel and me in it is right at 6,000 pounds. In a collision with a stationary wall at 40 mph, the Traverse has lower crash forces transmitted to the driver than the Expedition, but this is with the vehicle striking a fixed object. Both vehicles are rated five stars for the frontal crash into the wall test. If the Expedition and Traverse hit each other in a head on collision at the same speed say 45 mph, the Expedition driver will incur lower crash forces because of it’s heavier weight than the driver of the Traverse. Additionally, if you look at the Traverse side collision numbers on http://www.safercar.gov you will see that the Traverse has worse numbers than the Expedition but still garners a five star side crash rating. Where the full frame vehicle comes into it’s own is in a severe two vehicle collision. Remember, in a frontal type collision, you want the front of the car to deform as much as possible up to the point of intruding into the passenger compartment. Some of the newer full frame vehicles have dimpled or weakened portions of the front part of the frame to help with deformation in a frontal collision. Remember that crumpling is good up to a point then you want deformation to stop completely, again before any intrusion into the passenger compartment occurs.
Framed vehicles such as full size SUVs and full size pickup trucks are built on a heavy steel frames so they can handle heavy loads. I’m not sure we will see the death of the body on frame vehicle because there will always be a need for a vehicle that can haul a five-ton trailer such as a boat, camper etc. and that takes a steel frame vehicle. Nobody will argue that heavier vehicles don’t have a huge safety advantage over smaller lighter vehicles in a high crash force accident. A strong steel frame just adds a greater degree of protection from intrusion into the passenger compartment. There will always be accidents that are so severe that no vehicle would offer sufficient protection.
By the way I found this video from IIHS (Insurance Institute for Highway Safety) which is worth watching:
CRASH TESTS DEMONSTRATE THE INFLUENCE OF VEHICLE SIZE & WEIGHT
#99 of 118 Re: Vehicle Safety [dieselone]
Jun 22, 2009 (1:13 am)
Very interesting info about the results of your T-bone crash. . . It's very surprising that your airbag did not deploy. Even more amazing that the woman in the Grand Am walked away--truly miraculous outcome for her and you.
#100 of 118 Re: Vehicle Safety [tidester]
Jun 22, 2009 (8:09 am)
Sorry HOST, but with the forum with the title, "Death of the body-on-frame SUV?" I would think there would be some leway in the discussion, especially since I don't see hardly anyone here talking about the death of body-on-frame SUVs too much, just people talking about why they want to keep theirs.
And I don't see how I can "force" people to think one way or another just by posting here...I don't think my words here have that much power
But posting an opposing view in this forum is like going to an NRA forum and posting the obvious truth that if there were no guns available, then there would be no deaths from guns...but no politics right
#101 of 118 Re: Vehicle Safety [bobw3]
Jun 22, 2009 (10:10 am)
With upcoming CAFE regs I can see BOF SUVs going away except for maybe a Suburban and/or Expedition EL. I imagine Ford and GM probably will keep current designs around a while. While I'd hate to see the Expe and Suburban go away, it wouldn't be the end of the world. I'd just get a pickup to tow my toys.