Last post on Apr 17, 2012 at 3:51 PM
You are in the SUVs
What is this discussion about?
Chevrolet Tahoe, Honda Pilot, Isuzu Trooper, Ford Expedition, Dodge Durango, Ford Freestyle, Volvo XC90, SUV
#21 of 118 Re: Death of the body-on-frame SUV? [sddoc07]
Mar 15, 2007 (8:01 pm)
My problem with BOF SUVs out of Ford these days is excessive weights that have crept into Explorer and Expedition models. When you reach say about 5,000-5,200 lbs curb weight in a BOF 4wd SUV, moving the thing around becomes a chore. 5,800 to 6,100 lb curb weights for 2007 Expedition and EL in 4wd are major turn-offs for me even though I have been a full-sized SUV driver for 27 years. Even though the newer 4.6 and 5.4 L powered rigs are actually somewhat nimble, why not engineer out 500+ lbs per model and still have a BOF vehcile that does the hard working jobs.
Back in about 1995, a Ford dealer manager pointed to a Ford Bronco and said that it was the best new vehcile value on the lot. An over statement, but you still see Broncos hard at work in forests and firehalls and police special units and in private use by hunters, boaters, outdoorsmen. The rugged drivetrain, BOF, H/D engine and tranny, etc.,allow for many years and hundreds of thousands of miles of use with repair, rehab and replacement. This is especially true if the model in question had lockout to allow 2wd high when 4wd was not in use. So there is a demand for such a BOF at least in the short wheelbasees or else these units would no longer be in such active service.
No argument at all with your unibody and points about the excellent Pilot. Very popular vehicle with high resale value. Well done Honda. That's just that market.
But as long as there is adequate fuel at suitable prices, there will be a demand for heavy boat and trailer SUV towing, large family and cargo moving, and tough SUV jobs to be done. The BOF SUV simply is nowhere near dead.
..the auto companies study and refine these various markets constantly..when the sales fall the companies respond..
#22 of 118 Re: Death of the body-on-frame SUV? [sddoc07]
Mar 20, 2007 (6:42 pm)
Just commenting on the idea of driving a second car for the daily commute and then having an Expedition (or other) for when it's needed. I tried this for about two years and gave up. Yes, the cost of insurance alone on the second car is more than the extra gas of driving a large SUV every day but the bigger issue for me is that I had to plan my days around what vehicle I had. Finally I just admitted defeat. With two dogs and two kids and bikes and skis and all the rest I'm impressed and jealous of anyone in a similar situation who is efficient enough to survive with a small SUV / sedan.
#23 of 118 Re: Death of the body-on-frame SUV? [matador33]
Mar 21, 2007 (4:29 pm)
Since you probably put the skis & bikes on the roof and the dogs behind the 2nd row, you could get something smaller like a Subaru Forester and fit what you're talking about.
#24 of 118 Refreshing!
Mar 21, 2007 (10:17 pm)
I had no idea that so many people would contribute to this topic - thank you for your thoughts!
Bobw3 - I totally empathize with your points on safety of BOF SUVs. My dad, a Suburban disciple, has driven one since 1988 and has had a number of serious crashes (mostly not his fault =)) that he has walked away from with not so much as a headache. In contrast, the cars that run into Suburbans look devastated. That being said, he doesn't drive the thing like a racecar and when people do, they tend to flip.
I have a question for everyone - why is GM so ancient with its refusal for rear IRS and thus non-rear folding seats? Is there an advantage to their solid rear axles?
#25 of 118 Re: Refreshing! [sddoc07]
Mar 22, 2007 (7:06 am)
solid rear axles have been the most efficient drive, independent axles take more gear changes and each change is a loss.
#26 of 118 Re: Refreshing! [sddoc07]
Mar 22, 2007 (2:03 pm)
My dad, a Suburban disciple, has driven one since 1988 and has had a number of serious crashes (mostly not his fault =)) that he has walked away from with not so much as a headache. In contrast, the cars that run into Suburbans look devastated.
No offense, but I wouldn't want to be driving anywhere near your dad on the road, especially after the comment, "mostly not his fault" I wonder how many accidents he could have avoided if he wasn't driving such a big vehicle?
#27 of 118 BOF SUV's vs. pickups
Mar 23, 2007 (4:58 pm)
Well, there has obviously been a lot of new unibody crossover SUV's coming lately, and obviously those are the choice who want to use an SUV for just commuting and running errands.
But for those people who really use BOF SUV's off-road and towing abilities, it's just basically a crew cab pickup with a bit shorter bed and a bed cover as standard, and if they weren't available, they'd be using those, but SUV's are simply more user friendly with their one pull opening rear hatches and various other small things, such as the slightly smaller size (crew cabs are hugely long) and the more luxurious interiors of many SUV's compared to pickups.
If i were to buy a towing vehicle now, i'd go for a regular cab pickup (live alone, no need for four doors), but as a combined family and recreational towing and off-road vehicle (i doubt too many SUV's are used in only work conditions, companies apparently tend to use pickups), there aren't many options.
So, the BOF SUV isn't going anywhere in a long time.
#28 of 118 to me, bof suv's mean...
Mar 24, 2007 (6:25 pm)
rwd. jeep grand cherokees are unibody plus rwd. not sure how many others.
#29 of 118 Re: Its about use of the vehicle [boxtrooper]
Mar 28, 2007 (9:55 am)
I am the exact opposite....I did away with the small car for the SUV because I was run over. My Subaru Legacy was totalled last June because a Dodge 2500 truck ran a red light and nearly T-boned me (hit just in front of the passenger door). I felt like I was on the end of a whip. I still have effects from that wreck. No question about what to buy to replace the Subaru. I'm in an Expedition now.
#30 of 118 it's more like the death of...
Mar 28, 2007 (3:41 pm)
off road capability and towing capacity.
for a while bof rwd suv's were better than the alternatives, for many people.
the circumstances have changed.