Edmunds.com | Inside Line | Auto Observer Your Account | Help | Directory
You are here:
![[F]](http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/townhall/webxicons/site.gif){kind=small}
Forums
Pickups Toyota Tacoma Toyota Tacoma 2004 and Earlier Frame Problem
923 messages, Last post on Nov 16, 2009 at 8:28 AM
You are in the Toyota Tacoma Forum. Your Host is kcram
|
Replying to: bearcatter (Jan 16, 2009 7:52 am) |
|
Has anyone with a 2001 - 2004 Taco received a letter yet detailing the new frame replacement program? My case manager told me letters were going out in early January, yet my dealer's service manager (whom I check with at least weekly) still has not heard any details about what the dealers are supposed to be doing or when. I agree with mcalautt, frame replacement is a bad idea, and I've had other ASE mechanics tell me the same thing. My case manager told me that it will be at the dealer's discretion what gets replaced as part of the frame transplant vs. what the Taco owner needs to lay out $$$ for. That will just result in more PO'd Taco owners...
|
|
|
Replying to: deebone (Jan 17, 2009 5:56 pm) I have a 2001 and was lucky to fall into a buy out. My case manger (Kevin) basically is the middle man between us and corporate. He made sure he kept saying that they are buying mine back as "good will" as the 2001 - 2004's are all getting a frame replacement. I argued that frame replacements are NOT the answer and that toyota is going to really damage their customer reputation. HE said " we are not in the business of buying trucks back" I dont have enough room here to begin to tell you what I said. Imagine that, they are not in the business to buy trucks.. I said, "consumers are not in business to buy trucks that only last 5 to 6 years. |
|
|
|
|
Replying to: screwed4 (Jan 15, 2009 11:37 am) thanks
|
|
|
|
|
Replying to: daleyplanit (Jan 19, 2009 9:06 am) 
|
|
|
Replying to: bearcatter (Jan 16, 2009 7:52 am)
|
|
|
Replying to: JRB2002 (Jan 21, 2009 5:00 pm) the case manager I had (kevin) claims there were no frames avail for the 95 - 00 tacomas which is why there was a buy back. the bottom line is, even though they are pretending to care, they dont. they are only concerned about their total cost on all of this. |
|
|
So I went to my local mechanic- a great and honest man, and he put my truck up on the lift and proceeded to show me just how much stuff is related to the frame.... I also saw the rust on the frame, which is bad- but not horrible- YET. Here are a few things that will need to be replaced because of removing the existing frame: Engine mounts Cad mounts Upper and Lower suspension along w/ control arm......this will lead to a need for re-alignment Brake lines and brackets Fuel line and brackets Spare tire mount Evap unit All this and probably more- he guesstimated the cost at $2000 ! Plus I already have an existing whole in my gas tank (from rust.what a surprise) I go into my dealer next week to turn in my truck (my inspection expires 1/31/09) . I am going to try and negotiate w/ the dealer on these repairs.......we'll see what happens. I am not very good at playing the heavy- but I will not pay for repairs that I am not responsible for. BTW, my mechanic chrged me $16 for the look over.......i should just take the parts and let him do the work....... |
|
|
Just a little info about the 01-04 vehicles, there will be 1,000 frames available at the end of the month. The frames are being manufactured in a plant in Kentucky and were originally manufactured in the U.S. and obviously assembled at the NUMMI plant in Fremont, CA. There is no technical procedure released at this point for the frame replacement, and no info as to what is included with the repair kit. They obviously know what the major components are that will need replacement along with the frame. My suggestion is to seek a dealership with a Body Shop if at all posssible, they will be more familiar with the type of repair and procedures involved. |
|
|
|
|
The following is a letter that I've sent the NHTSA. I've pulled out all the stops trying to get someone to do something about our Tacomas. I've contacted the bostonchannel, 60 minutes, the Mass AG, my congressmen. It's a long read. I go into detail on what the problem is and why logistically, I feel Toyota won't be able to adequately perform their proposed fixes on our vehicles. That leads us to only one logical conclusion - buyback. Gentlemen, I am the unfortunate owner of a 2003 Toyota Tacoma. By now I'm sure you've heard all about the frame corrosion problems with the 1995 - 2004 Toyota Tacoma pick-ups. I believe that this is a much bigger problem than what Toyota is telling you folks at the NHTSA. The magnitude of this problem and the logistics of Toyota's proposed fix leaves the NHTSA no choice but to force Toyota to initiate a mandatory buyback of these dangerous vehicles. The conditions of the buyback should follow the precedence set by Toyota on Toyota's voluntary buyback program for the '95-01 Tacomas - 1.5 times the Kelly Blue Book retail value. Tacoma owners, such as myself, must be fairly compensated for unknowingly driving an unsafe vehicle and for the inconvenience of for being prematurely forced to look for a replacement vehicle. All this frame trouble is artificially depressing the Kelly Blue Book values, hence the 1.5 times Kelly Blue Book basically makes Tacoma owners whole. I had plans to keep this Tacoma for many more years. Now all I can wonder is when this defective frame will prematurely take my truck off the road and how much Toyota's gross negligence is invariably going to cost me. This isn't the legendary Toyota reliability that I bought into. Toyota's approach to addressing this frame issue is flawed because of the sheer number of vehicles involved. Basically Toyota won't be able to get the faulty frames repaired quickly enough, which will leave literally thousands of dangerous Tacomas still out on the roads, as their owners just can't park those vehicles and wait around for Toyota to replace the frame. Just think about the logistics of all this. Toyota is allotting 60 hours of technician time to swap out a typical frame. If you divide the number of Tacomas needing frame replacements by the number of northern states technicians available to actually perform the work, resolving this frame problem is literally going to take years. Not all the dealership's technicians will be doing frame replacements. Other vehicles will have to be serviced. If you happen to own one of the afflicted Tacomas, you don't have years to wait for a fix. The prudent thing is to force Toyota to accept the overwhelming futility of the situation and initiate a buyback immediately. If as a Tacoma owner, you want to wait around for your turn to get your frame replaced, then that's your call. Most of us can't wait. Our vehicles are rapidly becoming unsafe. We simply don't have years to wait. Synopsis of problem: The frame of the Tacoma was fabricated with insufficient corrosion protection, particularly inside the boxed section of frame under the midsection of the truck. The frame is literally rusting from the inside out. What happens is, as the frame rusts on the inside of the boxed section, the rust flakes drop onto the bottom of the boxed section. These rust flakes then plug the weep holes in the frame so that moisture is not allowed to drain out the interior of the boxed section, thereby exacerbating the potential for corrosion. So what is happening is the bottom of the boxed section of frame is rusting out due to the build-up of moisture and the accumulation of rust flakes plugging off the weep holes. The rust flakes are 1/8" deep on the bottom of my boxed section of frame. Basically the bottom 20% of Tacoma frames are rusting out. To a lesser degree, the top exterior of the boxed section of frame is also rusting, as the floor of the truck cab is only 1" above the frame, which makes cleaning the top of the frame in that area difficult with a water spray.. Because of the tight frame/cab tolerance, this area doesn't get cleaned by most owners, as they never realized it was such a problem until it's too late. What is particularly dangerous about the bottom of the boxed section of frame becoming compromised by corrosion, is the bottom of the boxed section is where the bracket for the rear leaf spring is attached. As the boxed section corrodes, there is less and less material supporting this major suspension bracket. The design of this bracket must be analyzed by your NHTSA independent engineer. I strongly believe that it doesn't take much frame corrosion to severely compromise the integrity of this welded leaf spring bracket. If this bracket fails, then the front of the leaf spring comes free, the rear axle comes out of alignment, which could cause the operator to lose control. This is a major safety issue! This compromised leaf spring bracket is why the NHTSA needs to force a mandatory buyback of this vehicle. In the northern road salt using states, the Toyota Tacoma MUST be taken off the road! Rampant frame corrosion is making the Tacoma unsafe. Toyota has an action plan to coat the inside and outsides of the good frames with an industrial coating. They are not removing the accumulated salt saturated rust flakes lying on the bottom of the boxed section of frame. They are just spraying a coating over them. The loose rust flakes have to be removed for the coating to properly adhere to the inside of the frame. Toyota's proposed fix for the so called "good" frames is flawed and will give owners a false sense of security. The NHTSA needs to demand that Toyota turn over all Tacoma frame design and suspension calculations to an independent engineer hired by the NHTSA. The independent engineer must analyze what effect various levels of corrosion have on the safety factor of the frame and suspension brackets. It is my strong belief that the frame is already designed to the margin for weight savings, so that it doesn't take much corrosion to erase all safety factor and place the frame and suspension components in grave danger of failing. I also can't help but wonder that since the frame is an integral part of the vehicle's safety system, what does a severely corroded and weakened frame do to the level of crash protection offered by the vehicle? If NHSTA's independent engineer finds that the frame does play a major role in the crash protection offered by the vehicle, and that these severely weakened frames makes the vehicle inherently dangerous, then NHSTA will have no choice but to force Toyota to initiate a mandatory recall and buyback. The NHTSA must take action. Toyota is in way over their head.
|
|
You are here:
Forums
Pickups Toyota Tacoma Toyota Tacoma 2004 and Earlier Frame Problem
New? Join Now!
Forum Tools
Search Forums
Browse by Vehicle
2011 Toyota Tacoma
2010 Toyota 4Runner
Browse by Board
Browse by Topic
Today's Chats
