- #114 of 491
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Re: VW Beetle TDI is a great alternative. [subienewbie2]
by scwmcan
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Feb 29, 2008 (11:20 am)
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Replying to: subienewbie2 (Feb 29, 2008 11:10 am)
you are right about milage of a deisel vs. the smart, but they will cost more, and smart does have a deisel that works quite well (and returns significantly better milage than the gasser) I don't know why they didn't wait to get that powerplant ready for the US before introducing the car there, they are also apparently just about ready with a hybid and a total electric version as well (again why they didn't push to get these ready for the US intro is beyond me). Maybe they are going to introduce one new tech a year or something to attempt to keep the inerest up, but I think it might backfire as people who bought the gas version first might be upset when the deisel comes and gets significantly better milage, (I know for me it is working in reverse here in Canada, I would like to get a smart, but if I do it will be a used deisel, not a new gasser).
Scott
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- #115 of 491
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Re: VW Beetle TDI is a great alternative. [subienewbie2]
by dmathews3
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Feb 29, 2008 (12:40 pm)
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Replying to: subienewbie2 (Feb 29, 2008 11:10 am)
I wonder on your statement that more brands will bring diesels here. Here in Mi. the price of diesel is up to 80 cents more per gal. than reg. With the prem. price of a diesel engine I wonder just how many people would buy one. A Prius which gets a lot better than what you are saying on the VW and I bet costs less brand new.
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- #116 of 491
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Re: VW Beetle TDI is a great alternative. [subienewbie2]
by gregg_vw
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Feb 29, 2008 (12:44 pm)
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Replying to: subienewbie2 (Feb 29, 2008 11:10 am)
I have a Golf diesel and can attest to better than 50 mpg on the highway in warm weather. Love the car, but it is huge compared to the smart. The smart has a place, and when the smart offers a diesel here, it will have superior mileage to other diesels.
I cancelled my smart order, but not without regret. Fun little car that sure gets the attention.
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- #117 of 491
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Re: VW Beetle TDI is a great alternative. [dmathews3]
by gregg_vw
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Feb 29, 2008 (12:46 pm)
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Replying to: dmathews3 (Feb 29, 2008 12:40 pm)
Diesel fuel is more expensive now (though not THAT much more here in WI). Diesel fuel prices go highest in winter and then tend to moderate.
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- #118 of 491
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Re: VW Beetle TDI is a great alternative. [gregg_vw]
by dmathews3
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Feb 29, 2008 (3:17 pm)
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Replying to: gregg_vw (Feb 29, 2008 12:46 pm)
Gas buddy in Greenbay says 60 cents. Thats a big difference and I doubt you could ever break even on the purchase of a diesel powered vehicle. At .60 a gal. different on a Smart at 40mpg compared to lets say 80 mpg for 25,000 you would spend $750 more for gas. Thats $3000 more for a 100,000 miles I'm guessing that isn't even the break even point for the diesel. I've had a diesel truck here in Mi. and when it gets real cold as in Wi. you need to add additives just to keep it from jelling which adds to the price of a gal of diesel. Bottom line the diesel isn't going to get 80 mpg unless it is a big downhill.
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- #119 of 491
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Re: no spare tire [studeman]
by snakeweasel
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Feb 29, 2008 (3:49 pm)
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Replying to: studeman (Feb 29, 2008 10:25 am)
Not to sure about that, most of the people I knew/saw that had one (not to far behind you in age) were refugees from Woodstock and/or were beat up by police in Grant park in '68.
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- #120 of 491
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Re: VW Beetle TDI is a great alternative. [dmathews3]
by subienewbie2
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Feb 29, 2008 (3:51 pm)
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Replying to: dmathews3 (Feb 29, 2008 3:17 pm)
I don't understand what you were trying to say ( At .60 a gal. different on a Smart at 40mpg compared to lets say 80 mpg for 25,000 you would spend $750.....) What gets 80 mpg?
My point was that a VW TDI Beetle gets better mpg than the US smart, accelerates better and is an all around car. Four passenger, much better for highway driving and does well in the city, it's a better choice for a person or family with just one car.
As a pure short haul commuter and as a second car Smart is just fine.
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- #121 of 491
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Re: VW Beetle TDI is a great alternative. [subienewbie2]
by snakeweasel
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Feb 29, 2008 (3:52 pm)
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Replying to: subienewbie2 (Feb 29, 2008 11:10 am)
With diesel now being 20%+ more than gas the diesels will have to have a lot more gas mileage.
Secondly with VW's current reliability records I will stay away from them like the plague.
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- #122 of 491
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Re: VW Beetle TDI is a great alternative. [subienewbie2]
by dmathews3
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Feb 29, 2008 (7:02 pm)
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Replying to: subienewbie2 (Feb 29, 2008 3:51 pm)
My point was you are toting diesels as a great deal and I'm saying that since yours don't get 80 miles per gal. that my figures are going to be a lot worse than what I quoted for the 80. You bought a used vehicle I believe so you aren't taking as bad a hit but the diesel is not going to be the magic answer to saving money if the price stays as high as it has been for the past few years. I'm also betting that they will tighten up more yet on diesel fuels and smog controls for the diesel engine further creating a larger break even point in a diesel purchase.
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- #123 of 491
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Re: VW Beetle TDI is a great alternative. [dmathews3]
by gregg_vw
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Mar 01, 2008 (5:26 am)
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Replying to: dmathews3 (Feb 29, 2008 3:17 pm)
Here in Madison the difference is 40 cents at teh station where I buy diesel. And as I pointed out before, that difference tends to be even less in warmer weather. In any event, the overall difference for the year comes out to less than 20%, and most diesels do at least 30% betterr than the gas engine same car. Look at the difference between the 2.5 liter Golf (base model) and the diesel version. It is greater than 30%. Diesels are more likely than gas burners to better their EPA estimates, once broken in.
Furthermore, additives on these newer vehicles are NOT necessary. My 2003 Golf starts when it is 20 below, and I never put any anti-gell additives in. Bottom line, diesels are a compromise, like anything else. But no matter how you cut it, they get better mileage and cost less to fuel.
Oh, and the new clean diesels coming from VW in 2008/2009, are more powerful, quieter, and get much better mileage than before. The cleanest, most smog-free cars in Europe are now diesels. It is no wonder that they have captured so much of the market there. Develop anything in great numbers, and it tends to get better.
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