Article Comments 2008 Smart Fortwo First Drive

110 messages, Last post on Aug 07, 2008 at 8:31 AM

You are in the Smart Car Forum. Your Host is pf_flyer

What is this discussion about? smart fortwo, Hatchback

Article comments for First Drive: 2008 Smart Fortwo - The 2008 Fortwo is larger than its predecessor, but it's still outrageously small, some 40 inches shorter than a Mini. In real life, it looks like an artist's impression of what a car might look like if we all drank skinny lattes. (more)

Full Test: 2008 Smart Fortwo Passion - Bottom Line: Hugely versatile as a city-only car, but perhaps not the best choice for those who go farther or need to carry more. (more)

Outline

Messages Page 10 of 11: 1; ...; 5; 6; 7; 8; 9; 10; 11; Prev; Next; Last

#90 of 110 ... by plekto Mar 03, 2008 (3:55 pm)
The Yaris is rated at 36 Highway and at 3.15 per gallon that comes to 8.75 cents per mile to drive, The Smart is rated at 41 so at 3.35 per gallon that comes to 8.17 cents per mile. Thats 0.48 cents a mile more to drive the Yaris, while it may not sound like much it does add up. Driving in the city the difference is even greater. **** That's $480 in extra gas for 100,000 miles. And a manual Yaris is a snap to get - just go to Cars Direct and have them get one for you. Plus, Toyota is running $500 in manufacturer to dealer incentives right now, which is why you can get about $1200 off the normal price. That pays for the convenience package which includes most importantly, rear seats that recline and slide back and forth, which allows for Honda Fit type legroom and headroom. In fact, slid back and leaned all the way back as well the thing is as spacious in the rear as a Camry. Oh, it would also include all the goodies. Here's a Yaris: Base Model: Net Cost: $10,552+660 delivery. Power/Convenience package: $1161 ABS: $258 Side Airbags: $559 Fog Lamps: $88 TRD rear swaybar: $150 - not stability control, but nearly as useful in this car. Cold Area Package: $88 - see below $13,516 Total. This, of course, adds a lot of features, but the Smart has most of these. I added the cold weather option because I always add that if its available, since it adds a heavy duty starter and rear heater ducts, heavy duty heater, and so on, which I figure Smart would add if there was a rear seat.(and my son wouldn't be happy without - rear heat is a godsend) The Base Smart: Target Price: $11.590+635 delivery. Air Conditioning - $600 MP3 capable radio - $495 Fog Lamps $110(if the dealer doesn't charge you to install this) $13,440 total. Honestly, too close to call. And, this really isn't a Yaris - the Upper trim level Smart is closer to it, since the Yaris I chose has power everything on it. Smart Passion: $14,235 Total This includes the foglamps and MP3 stereo for $260. It's a nice car and all, but it's obviously suffering from Mercedes pricing, especially since Mercedes is on record as saying that they reduced the production costs of the Smart 451 by over 20% from the older 450. That nets about a $9000-$10000 cost for the car and the rest is markup. Replies to this message: magbarn (Mar 03, 2008 9:29 pm) 6sptl (Mar 05, 2008 9:48 am)
#91 of 110 Re: ... [plekto] by magbarn Mar 03, 2008 (9:29 pm)
Replying to: plekto (Mar 03, 2008 3:55 pm) I've come to the same conclusion. Also keep in mind the BASE smart car doesn't come with power windows that's why my roomate's yaris was even less than the smart by about $1000. Face it, you can't argue in favor of the smart other than it's size, "cuteness" factor, or appearing "green". From an MPG/pricing standpoint it doesn't hold water. Replies to this message: 6sptl (Mar 05, 2008 9:48 am)
#92 of 110 Re: ... [magbarn] by 6sptl Mar 05, 2008 (9:48 am)
Replying to: magbarn (Mar 03, 2008 9:29 pm) Not to mention that even the Yaris, which is one of the lowest ranked cars by consumer reports and Not Recommended due being overall crap, is a jewel of performance, efficiency and refinement compared to the Smart. The Smart is simply the worst car sold in the US for a long time. In this case Smart does not stand for intelectual prowess it refers to a sharp pain that you feel in your behind after driving it out of the dealer LOL!
#93 of 110 Yaris? by plekto Mar 05, 2008 (12:46 pm)
First off, Consumer Reports is only happy with a car if it is essentially a Camry or Buick. Big, floaty, and made for 50 year olds. I haven't found any other site that has a problem with the Yaris hatchback. While they might not like the sedan, they love the hatchback. It's frugal, handles well enough for what it is, and is really inexpensive to buy. http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/05/27/008820.html A typical review. It's worlds better than the Xa it essentially replaced, and junk like the Aveo and Accent(both actually Daewoo vehicles, IIRC). Note - the Elantra, which IS made by Hyundai is a superb vehicle, easily the best in this entry-level class when you consider the frequent 1-2K rebates that are offered on it. The Smart is easily as well built - actually moreso, but it lacks a rear seat which is a deal-killer for many, and the transmission is still rubbish. Replies to this message: dmathews3 (Mar 05, 2008 1:38 pm) plekto (Mar 05, 2008 4:43 pm) bumpy (Mar 06, 2008 12:39 pm)
#94 of 110 Re: Yaris? [plekto] by dmathews3 Mar 05, 2008 (1:38 pm)
Replying to: plekto (Mar 05, 2008 12:46 pm) Sine when did CR ever like any GM vehicle? Replies to this message: plekto (Mar 05, 2008 4:43 pm)
#95 of 110 Re: Yaris? [dmathews3] by plekto Mar 05, 2008 (4:43 pm)
Replying to: dmathews3 (Mar 05, 2008 1:38 pm) Actually, CR only hates most GM vehicles. There have always been a few that they like, which are usually the bigger Buicks and GMC SUVs. They seem to care more about trunk space and amenities than how the thing actually drives. Anything smaller than a Civic or Corolla, though, they have almost always hated. But remember - we're talking about basic econoboxes here, and the Yaris is the best of the bunch right now. Also, at almost 2300lbs, it's actually quite a large car - a far cry from the Echo. 2005 Echo(basically same for hatch and sedan): Overall length (inches): 164.8, overall width (inches): 65.4, overall height (inches): 59.4, wheelbase (inches). 93.0, weight: 2020Lbs. Turning radius 32.8ft Small, light, underpowered, and a wheelbase that was too small for such a large turning radius. 2008 Yaris Hatch: Overall length (inches): 150.0, overall width (inches): 66.7, overall height (inches): 60.0, wheelbase (inches): 96.9, weight: 2295Lbs. Turning radius 30.8ft.(better than a Mini, roughly 2ft larger than a smart(!)) Small, heavier than the Echo(good thing) - just the right compromises. It hits that sweet spot between microcar and compact. 2008 Yaris Sedan: Overall length (inches): 169.3, overall width (inches): 66.5, overall height (inches): 56.7, wheelbase (inches): 100.4, weight: 2293Lbs. Turning radius 32.6ft It's no wonder they don't like the sedan. While it has a larger wheelbase to help with smoothness, it has less weight at its corners and the same suspension as the hatchback - and it's less agile and too light/bouncy compared to the hatchback. Most competing cars that size are easily 300-500lbs heavier. It feels a lot like a bigger Echo to many people as Toyota somehow got it wrong. The Focus, for instance: Overall length (inches): 168.5, overall width (inches): 66.9, overall height (inches): 56.3, wheelbase (inches): 103.0, weight: 2654Lbs. 34.1ft turning radius. Almost 400lbs heavier in the same size car and 2.6 inches longer wheelbase(impressive in such a small car, actually). Of course the Yaris sedan comes off as a mess.
#96 of 110 Re: Yaris? [plekto] by bumpy Mar 06, 2008 (12:39 pm)
Replying to: plekto (Mar 05, 2008 12:46 pm) The Accent is a Hyundai. The Accent hatch is a bit bigger and heavier than the Yaris hatch, and supposedly the Accent SE isn't a bad ride.
#97 of 110 Accent/Hyundai by plekto Mar 06, 2008 (2:23 pm)
http://www.cars-directory.net/history/daewoo/ In 1998, the low-volume assemly of the Lanos, Nubira and the Leganza started in Taganrog, Russia, at the TagAZ factory. The cars were sold on the local market under the Doninvest brand, as the Assol, the Orion and the Kondor, respectively. The project didn't have much success, so TagAZ recently turned to Hyundai and started producing the Hyundai Accent and the Kia Rio. * I heard this from the local manager as well. The Rio and Accent are based upon Daewoo's designs, and is why they are noticeably lower quality that the true Hyundais. The difference between the Accent and the Elantra is stark, in fact. * (from Wikipedia) In Europe, this model was heavily promoted by the motoring press, and even Hyundai themselves, as a "stopgap" model - that it was intended merely to plug the gap in Hyundai's range until a brand new small family car was launched in 2007. This new car, the Hyundai i30 fills the void left by the Accent and the larger Hyundai Elantra. The name change came about so as to help distance the i30 from the budget reputation of the Accent, and also to highlight that the new car can truly compete in the small family hatchback sector - something the Accent was slightly too small to do, and the Elantra too large. The Accent will continue to be sold in the U.S. in 2008 with an instrument panel overhaul and standard rear cupholders in the SE model. *** The I30 is the next real Hyundai small car, but we won't get it until 2009 in the U.S. It's going to be worlds better than the joint venture Accent. Prices will rise about $1000 or so on the I30, but who honestly bought the budget nothing on it version of the Accent? (The I30 will sell in Korea for about $13K U.S. equivalent while the Accent sold for closer to $9000(that includes tax, so figure 10% lower or so in the U.S.). ie - the Accent isn't a bad car, it's just an $8000 car marked up a whole bunch, much like the Aveo is. The i30, otoh, it will sell for $11K and be worth $11K. P.S. The Aveo sells in Korea for ~7600Won, or about $8000USD. GM makes more money on each Aveo than it does on most Buicks and Pontiacs. A little tidbit that I thought I should pass on. Replies to this message: scwmcan (Mar 06, 2008 2:30 pm) bumpy (Mar 10, 2008 8:07 am) plekto (Mar 10, 2008 11:32 am) bumpy (Mar 12, 2008 12:19 pm) and 1 more...
#98 of 110 Re: Accent/Hyundai [plekto] by scwmcan Mar 06, 2008 (2:30 pm)
Replying to: plekto (Mar 06, 2008 2:23 pm) No the rio and accent share a platform, but as it has already been started they are a hyundai platform, if they are noticably worse that the rest of the line up (and not sure they are) then it is only hyundai's fault. I have never heard any commentsa of the accent/rio being a joint venture with daewoo (and what car is the daewoo version?) Scott
#99 of 110 Re: Accent/Hyundai [plekto] by bumpy Mar 10, 2008 (8:07 am)
Replying to: plekto (Mar 06, 2008 2:23 pm) No, the Accent has always been a Hyundai, the lineal descendent of the infamous Hyundai Excel of 1986. The current Kia Rio shares a platform with it (the older Rios didn't), and Daewoo was never involved with it. I think you're being wildly optimistic if you think the Elantra Touring (the US version of the i30) will list for $11,000. Replies to this message: plekto (Mar 10, 2008 11:32 am) bumpy (Mar 12, 2008 12:19 pm) scwmcan (Mar 12, 2008 12:33 pm)