Last post on Jul 08, 2009 at 5:29 PM
You are in the Infiniti M35/M45
What is this discussion about?
Infiniti M35, Sedan
#51 of 139 Re: Official 2008 M Info [pearl]
Jul 04, 2007 (12:00 am)
however, they have heard the complaints about higway noise and poor fuel economy since the new M was introduced three years ago and have done nothing..... Infiniti seems very arrogant to me on this issue. For 08 there will be numerous other cars with similar performance AND better mileage.
I certainly would agree that it would be nice if gas mileage were improved across the Infiniti lineup. However, I'm a little at a loss as to why this is such a gigantic problem for everyone.
As I have noticed in the various threads, most posting here are very capable of computing actual costs of ownership, leasing, etc. So, if you apply that same mathematical ability to actual fuel costs perhaps you'd stop wringing your hands.
1. Assume that you drive 15,000 miles/year, which is greater than the national average of just less than 12,000 miles.
2. Assume that the Infiniti M45 manages only 16mpg in combined driving. Unless you drive incredibly aggressively or on ultra-short hops with cool down periods in between this should easily be achievable. Even when I make mostly 5 mile in-city drives with long cool down periods between trips I can average 16.5mpg.
3. Compare the above mileage to the car which achieves the best mileage of the bunch, most likely the Audi A6 4.2FSI. Allow us to be generous and give the Audi it's predicted "combined" mileage, 20mpg.
4. Cost to fuel the M45 - 15,000/16 * $4/gal = $3,750/yr.
Cost to fuel the A6 - 15,000/20 * $4/gal = $3,000/yr.
So, assuming even worst case scenarios for the M45 (short hop all city driving) and using the EPA combined figures for the A6, you find that you'd spend an extra $750/yr for gas on the M45 assuming $4/gal gas. I can guarantee you, at least in my case, the actual spread would be far less than this.
Now, let's compare MSRPs of the bunch when similarly equipped. M45 Sport - $56,750, BMW 550i - $71,000, MB E550 - approx $74,000, and Audi A6 4.2FSI - $64,000. With most of you driving your cars 3 years or less, the additional fuel costs would not come close to matching the price difference of the cars.
MSRP, as a measure of cost, can often be misleading due to resale values of the cars. The old, poor resale value argument against Infiniti no longer applies when you look at current figures for the M and G especially. The M has held it's value as well as the BMW 5-Series and has actually surpassed the MB E-Class and Audi A6.
BMW's routine practice of sub venting leases may bring the actual out of pocket costs over the course of a lease close to the M45 so it might be possible to claim that the thirstiness of the M is detrimental. However, if you look at the EPA estimates for the 550i, they are actually lower than the Infiniti M.
As to the matter of high revs and accompanying noise, I've found this to be a concern in the M35 only. Even though the M45 is above 2,000rpm at speeds greater than 60mph, noise is not a factor. The only reason noise is a factor in the M35 is Infiniti's choice to equip the M35 with an aggressive chip set that boosts the exhaust note. I personally would remove that chip set from all M35 models excepting the M35 Sport. I truly believe that more people in the luxury market would seriously consider the M35 if it were quieter. Infiniti has had no problems moving their available M35 inventory without deep discounting or incentives though so perhaps they know better than me.
Finally, I would caution against solely focusing on the features of a car that affect you negatively. While you consider Infiniti "arrogant" for not changing the features you have mentioned, how do you feel about their ability to deliver all the features that this car has for anywhere between $6,000 and $17,000 less than their competitors? I'd say they've done quite a good job of delivering this car at it's price point.
#52 of 139 Re: Official 2008 M Info [blov8r]
Jul 04, 2007 (7:50 am)
I'm behind the times. The passenger seat WAS converted to full function last year. I'm still leaning to "transportation" over "recreation" when this lease is up. When I go back over the many "fun" or "luxuty" cars I've leased over the years and tried to assess the REAL pleasure my extra $$$ bought me for 7K miles per year I've come to realize that each of those toys lost their lustre after a month or two and almost invariably I was looking for the next thrill to lease next time around! As the Pennsylvania Dutch say: "Vee get too soon oldt und too late shmart". Bart
#53 of 139 Re: Official 2008 M Info [bw45sport]
Jul 05, 2007 (5:38 am)
I think your analysis is good; however, one should not assume that just because someone can "afford the gas" that they want to burn it. The point has been, and continues to be, that from birth, the "new M" has received numerous accolades, but has also been consistently criticized for 1)poor fuel economy, and 2) noisy interior when compared to its competition. While there can be many reasons for this, one thing that always leaps out is that Infiniti has chosen very high (numerically) gearing both in terms of rear axle ratio and transmission apparently to enhance acceleration. Well, they definitely succeed in the latter, but got the gas/noise complaints in return. Many people, who otherwise like the performance have wished that Infiniti would get around to "fixing" (or at least improving) mileage and noise and one quick way to do that is to cut RPMs at highway cruising speed. Again, several ways to do this including a six speed transmission (with O/D sixth), or lower (numerically) fifth gear in the existing transmission (cheap solution). Changing the rear axle ratio would do the same but would also lower performance. Other things including engine mods could be considered too.
Lots of people were hoping to see some of these improvements for the 08 model year - but Infiniti chose to do nothing in this regard. Whether they are "arrogant" or "foolish" or "have done a good job" is in the eye of the beholder; however, it is hard to see how they will sell more Ms for 08 without having addressed these consistent complaints.
#54 of 139 Re: Official 2008 M Info [pearl]
Jul 05, 2007 (7:11 am)
it is hard to see how they will sell more Ms for 08 without having addressed these consistent complaints.
Pearl: The TRUE test of what they have or haven't accomplished is retention of owners who move into their next car as leases on the '06 model expire this year. Repeat business is a better barometer of success or improvement than raw sales numbers, although the raw numbers translate into dollars. But that is short-lived ... if people leave the M badge for Lexus or (perish the thought, BMW or MB) the message will be quite clear that they've shot themselves in the foot AGAIN by not fixing the fixable.
#55 of 139 Re: Official 2008 M Info [blov8r]
Jul 05, 2007 (10:48 am)
I am really interested in purchasing an 08 M but all this talk is starting to turn me away. My main question is: Is this problem only on the M35 or also the M45?(I plan on buying a 45)
#56 of 139 Re: Official 2008 M Info [whtcts0713]
Jul 05, 2007 (5:10 pm)
Mine is a 35 Sport ... and I don't understand the interior road noise complaint. I haven't experienced it in > 2 years, and with the 19" tires I should be getting more road noise than the base car's tires give. The passenger's seat has been addressed. The 5-speed tranny does rev fairly high and there's no way this is an economy car. I got ~ 16 mpg for the first 10K miles in local commuting and beyond that I've gotten 17.5 ... and I'm stop-and-go to and from the offices and home so my mileage is as bad as it can get. (I'm also not sympathetic to those who whine about gas mileage when they drive a $50K+ car.) Perhaps it's fair to make the comparison between the M and possibly the Lexus G similar to the difference between a Corvette or Porsche and a Lexus coupe. One's fun to drive, nimble, with a bit more road feedback ... the other's softer/heavier and NICE to drive but by no means FUN to drive. I like driving my car, not riding in my car. No one's complaining about quality ... no one's complaining about the driving experience. Make your own decision based on material time behind the wheel of a demo car ... cars are, to be quite frank, very personal choices. Good luck. Irrespective of your decision it's certain you'll be happy with it. Bart
#57 of 139 Re: Official 2008 M Info [whtcts0713]
Jul 06, 2007 (9:25 am)
Hi, if you make the decision to purchase an M you def will not go wrong you will be getting standard XM or Sirius Satellite as a standard option on the 08 M, plus you are getting a great car, I ve had my 07 M35 for goin on 2 months, and I love it, I am getting the attention I deserve, plus, the respect, this car is def an attention getter, espcially with the ladies! Compared to other cars, you will not go wrong, BMW is pure performance, but the interior is no where near as nice as an M, Lexus is full of themselves, good performance, good handling, but there financing is a complete joke! I went to test a GS450 and the sales guy tired to talk me into a measley IS250 and quoted me a price of $799 excluding tax, plus the luxury appointments and performace cannot compare to an Infiniti. My advice to you is go test drive an 07 M45, the car will not be changed until 09 or 10. When u test drive open out the engine shut off the sound system listen to the gears, try to feel the gears shift you wont! Take it on the freeway open out the engine the accleration is WONDERFUL, this car flies like a bird!!!! This vehicle is very astheically desinged, and can rank up against any lexus, BMW, or MB in its class, they just need to build a track record, and the rest will be history. Infiniti needs to put that new VQ engine (turbo V6) that will be in the Nissan Skyline GT-R in the M35, that engine produces 480 bph, opposed to the VQ35D which is in the current M35 which produces 280 bph. If you want a Benz, then your payin for the name same with BMW expect you get a little more hp and performance, lexus your just payin for the name the car will be a piece of shit within 2 years i gurauntee! Infinit is built like a tank, but performs like an S 550, with the stylin accolades, and the attention getter ability of a pure luxury sport sedan!!!
Jul 09, 2007 (11:38 am)
Does anyone know when the release date for the '08 M is?
#59 of 139 Re: Release Date [archaicrelic]
Jul 09, 2007 (2:35 pm)
I spoke to Infiniti customer service, The date that the new 2008 M will be available is NOVEMBER 5. The original Date was September 28.
#60 of 139 Pix of '08 M?
Jul 11, 2007 (5:57 am)
I see in Infiniti's announcement of "major upgrades" of its M sedan a mention of "revised interior and exterior styling," including:
- Revised front and rear fascia, headlights, grille, rear decklid and taillight design, rear fender panels, new chrome accents
- New wheel designs
Since I will be looking at the M45x, I am not in a position of trying to decide whether to get a deal on an '07 or wait for the '08, but I am still quite interested in any style changes. I generally like the look of the M (it doesn't knock me over, but it appears well designed and proportioned), except for the rear taillights. And by rear taillights, I mean in particular the (to me) jarring white gash of the turn signal lights. I would be thrilled if the aesthetics of the rear end were improved. Are there any pictures available yet of the revised design?