Last post on Jul 08, 2009 at 4:29 PM
You are in the Infiniti M35/M45
What is this discussion about?
Infiniti M35, Sedan
#45 of 139 Re: Official 2008 M Info [kals]
Jul 01, 2007 (7:26 am)
Really unexciting news! My M35 lease will be up in 15 months and I was anticipating moving into the '08 M...but not with these changes.
1) The obvious negative is no changes to the engine or transmission...Where is the 3.7, where is the 6 speed or CVT...and where is the fuel economy improvement? What is Infinity thinking? I guess they are abandoning the M for 2008 expecting the G to make the money. I am going to bet that the 08 M is a very short model year and the 09 comes out (very) early.
2) White and lavender instruments? I wonder if they did any market research? Sounds incredibly ugly for a luxury car.
3) every M owner I know turns off the current lane change system. With the "improvements" which will cause the car to turn back into the current lane, it sounds almost dangerous if you are actually trying to change lanes. I guess it works, but I can't imagine anyone using it except to demo to friends.
4) Finally, rain sensing wipers....wow, what a technology improvement.
I'll be moving to a Lexus or returning to a BMW for my next car.
Jul 02, 2007 (12:29 pm)
Any news at to what the new colors are?
#47 of 139 Re: Official 2008 M Info [ghstudio]
Jul 02, 2007 (6:52 pm)
I agree. I have no idea what the heck Infiniti is thinking. I liked the M35X after test driving. I thought that it had much more luxurious appointments over the competitors (BMW 530, Acura RL, Lexus GS, etc. I also thought it had better in handling than the BMW. However, I never drove the car on the open highway. There are too many complaints here about the car revving too high at 70mph. This really concerns me. Even 4 cylinders don't rev that high anymore, let alone a luxury car. I think the excessive engine hum would really get to me on long trips. I had a 91 Honda Prelude that I had to get rid of because of high revs at highway speeds. I swore I would never buy another car like that again. Too bad, because the M was really roomy - something that is also important to me.
#48 of 139 Re: Official 2008 M Info [ghstudio]
Jul 03, 2007 (2:34 am)
ghstudio, I am sure that you are correct that Infiniti does not have a six speed in their parts bin to "drop in"; however, they have heard the complaints about higway noise and poor fuel economy since the new M was introduced three years ago and have done nothing (including buying one from another manufacturer which many others already do). Nearly all other manufacturers are moving to six speed (or more) transmissions. Even if Nissan/Infiniti concluded that they could not/would not develop one, there are plenty of other things they could do, such as reduce the overall axle ratio, or drop the ratio of the final fifth gear in the present transmission, or try to reduce the vehicle weight, etc, etc. Infiniti seems very arrogant to me on this issue. For 08 there will be numerous other cars with similar performance AND better mileage. To me, Infiniti is behaving like having your neighbor tell you that your house is on fire, but continuing to sit there and watch your favorite TV show.
#49 of 139 Re: Official 2008 M Info [pearl]
Jul 03, 2007 (5:58 am)
I got my M as one of the very first delivered in Tucson ... April 1, 2005. I've not had a moment's problem with it but am very disappointed that they've turned a deaf ear to the myriad of legitimate (and fairly easy to fix) "issues" raised by otherwise very happy owners. Have they fixed the passenger seat? I'll find out today ... mine's going in for an oil change. Gearing not addressed. Fuel economy not addressed. A recipe for taking a stunningly good beginning and turning it into yet another failure. I'd expect this kind of stubbornness from the Germans but not the Japanese. Very distressing. I'll buy American before I buy Infiniti or Lexus (again) if this is the best they can do. 12 months and mine's gone. Bart.
#50 of 139 Re: Official 2008 M Info [ocim]
Jul 03, 2007 (6:21 am)
I had been considering the M35x as a replacement for my '06 330Xi (wanted more room and a smoother ride). From what I had read, there were things I liked about the M35x (handling / performance, looks, value, room), but also some aspects that were causing me to hesitate, primarily highway engine revs, supposedly a little rougher ride than a 5 series, and slighly noisier cabin.
Before I got around to test driving an M35x, BMW announced the 2008 5 series models and I ordered a 535Xi immediately after a test drive (just picked it up last night). I felt the twin turbo engine would make the 535Xi more of a competitor to the M45 than the M35; the M45x was still an unconfirmed rumor; the 535Xi was available now (although it is expensive), and I have rarely seen any criticism of the ride, noise, and handling of a 5 series.
I was also concerned that Infiniti would upgrade the engine in the M35x to either the one in the new G series, or even the 3.7 engine in the new G35 coupe, and did not want to pay that much money for a car that could soon have last year's engine.
The M45x sounds exciting. I'll be anxious to see what others think, and hope I don't get buyer's remorse!
#51 of 139 Re: Official 2008 M Info [pearl]
Jul 03, 2007 (11:00 pm)
however, they have heard the complaints about higway noise and poor fuel economy since the new M was introduced three years ago and have done nothing..... Infiniti seems very arrogant to me on this issue. For 08 there will be numerous other cars with similar performance AND better mileage.
I certainly would agree that it would be nice if gas mileage were improved across the Infiniti lineup. However, I'm a little at a loss as to why this is such a gigantic problem for everyone.
As I have noticed in the various threads, most posting here are very capable of computing actual costs of ownership, leasing, etc. So, if you apply that same mathematical ability to actual fuel costs perhaps you'd stop wringing your hands.
1. Assume that you drive 15,000 miles/year, which is greater than the national average of just less than 12,000 miles.
2. Assume that the Infiniti M45 manages only 16mpg in combined driving. Unless you drive incredibly aggressively or on ultra-short hops with cool down periods in between this should easily be achievable. Even when I make mostly 5 mile in-city drives with long cool down periods between trips I can average 16.5mpg.
3. Compare the above mileage to the car which achieves the best mileage of the bunch, most likely the Audi A6 4.2FSI. Allow us to be generous and give the Audi it's predicted "combined" mileage, 20mpg.
4. Cost to fuel the M45 - 15,000/16 * $4/gal = $3,750/yr.
Cost to fuel the A6 - 15,000/20 * $4/gal = $3,000/yr.
So, assuming even worst case scenarios for the M45 (short hop all city driving) and using the EPA combined figures for the A6, you find that you'd spend an extra $750/yr for gas on the M45 assuming $4/gal gas. I can guarantee you, at least in my case, the actual spread would be far less than this.
Now, let's compare MSRPs of the bunch when similarly equipped. M45 Sport - $56,750, BMW 550i - $71,000, MB E550 - approx $74,000, and Audi A6 4.2FSI - $64,000. With most of you driving your cars 3 years or less, the additional fuel costs would not come close to matching the price difference of the cars.
MSRP, as a measure of cost, can often be misleading due to resale values of the cars. The old, poor resale value argument against Infiniti no longer applies when you look at current figures for the M and G especially. The M has held it's value as well as the BMW 5-Series and has actually surpassed the MB E-Class and Audi A6.
BMW's routine practice of sub venting leases may bring the actual out of pocket costs over the course of a lease close to the M45 so it might be possible to claim that the thirstiness of the M is detrimental. However, if you look at the EPA estimates for the 550i, they are actually lower than the Infiniti M.
As to the matter of high revs and accompanying noise, I've found this to be a concern in the M35 only. Even though the M45 is above 2,000rpm at speeds greater than 60mph, noise is not a factor. The only reason noise is a factor in the M35 is Infiniti's choice to equip the M35 with an aggressive chip set that boosts the exhaust note. I personally would remove that chip set from all M35 models excepting the M35 Sport. I truly believe that more people in the luxury market would seriously consider the M35 if it were quieter. Infiniti has had no problems moving their available M35 inventory without deep discounting or incentives though so perhaps they know better than me.
Finally, I would caution against solely focusing on the features of a car that affect you negatively. While you consider Infiniti "arrogant" for not changing the features you have mentioned, how do you feel about their ability to deliver all the features that this car has for anywhere between $6,000 and $17,000 less than their competitors? I'd say they've done quite a good job of delivering this car at it's price point.
#52 of 139 Re: Official 2008 M Info [blov8r]
Jul 04, 2007 (6:50 am)
I'm behind the times. The passenger seat WAS converted to full function last year. I'm still leaning to "transportation" over "recreation" when this lease is up. When I go back over the many "fun" or "luxuty" cars I've leased over the years and tried to assess the REAL pleasure my extra $$$ bought me for 7K miles per year I've come to realize that each of those toys lost their lustre after a month or two and almost invariably I was looking for the next thrill to lease next time around! As the Pennsylvania Dutch say: "Vee get too soon oldt und too late shmart". Bart
#53 of 139 Re: Official 2008 M Info [bw45sport]
Jul 05, 2007 (4:38 am)
I think your analysis is good; however, one should not assume that just because someone can "afford the gas" that they want to burn it. The point has been, and continues to be, that from birth, the "new M" has received numerous accolades, but has also been consistently criticized for 1)poor fuel economy, and 2) noisy interior when compared to its competition. While there can be many reasons for this, one thing that always leaps out is that Infiniti has chosen very high (numerically) gearing both in terms of rear axle ratio and transmission apparently to enhance acceleration. Well, they definitely succeed in the latter, but got the gas/noise complaints in return. Many people, who otherwise like the performance have wished that Infiniti would get around to "fixing" (or at least improving) mileage and noise and one quick way to do that is to cut RPMs at highway cruising speed. Again, several ways to do this including a six speed transmission (with O/D sixth), or lower (numerically) fifth gear in the existing transmission (cheap solution). Changing the rear axle ratio would do the same but would also lower performance. Other things including engine mods could be considered too.
Lots of people were hoping to see some of these improvements for the 08 model year - but Infiniti chose to do nothing in this regard. Whether they are "arrogant" or "foolish" or "have done a good job" is in the eye of the beholder; however, it is hard to see how they will sell more Ms for 08 without having addressed these consistent complaints.
#54 of 139 Re: Official 2008 M Info [pearl]
Jul 05, 2007 (6:11 am)
it is hard to see how they will sell more Ms for 08 without having addressed these consistent complaints.
Pearl: The TRUE test of what they have or haven't accomplished is retention of owners who move into their next car as leases on the '06 model expire this year. Repeat business is a better barometer of success or improvement than raw sales numbers, although the raw numbers translate into dollars. But that is short-lived ... if people leave the M badge for Lexus or (perish the thought, BMW or MB) the message will be quite clear that they've shot themselves in the foot AGAIN by not fixing the fixable.