Last post on Mar 31, 2013 at 1:43 PM
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Toyota Sienna, Car Buying, Van
#153 of 177 Re: HELP Buying Used 2001 Sienna [michelleonline]
May 10, 2012 (8:24 am)
I recently (2010) bought a used 2001 Toyota Sienna, there are some issues with this van to worry about before purchasing. While they are great vans, if they are taken care of.. they are a nightmare if they have been neglected.
First thing to keep in mind, this vehicle at this point is 11 years old.. they will need some kind of work.. whether it be basic maintenance or some other repair work done.
Secondly, there are a few Toyota Service Bulletins on this van.
the first is; There was a "hidden" recall for engine sludging.. this is typically fixed at this point, if there was an issue, you would need to rebuild the engine. This was corrected in the 2004 model year with the 3.3ltr replacement engine. Second was an issue with the ECM causing the engine to knock heavily causing issues with bent valves, or knocking motor sounds, it can be "hidden" with a thick oil. Keep this in mind prior to buying one..
Actual recalls are also something to keep in mind.. 1. there are about 600 of them that were affected with sub-frame separation that will cause vibrations, or at worst the front with clunk heavily.. this is fixed for free from toyota.. 2. There was a recall on 60K of them for rot on the spare tire cable that can cause the spare tire to fall off the van.. This was fixed on mine.. But, again, if the van was neglected.. then who knows..
i purchased my van at 70K miles, i now have 105K miles on mine.. In that time i have replaced.. 4 tires, Brakes, ball joints, tie rod ends, suspension bushings, ECM (mine was effected 500.00 part at salvage yard) Transmission fluid flush, Coolant flush, and dropped the Oil pan to clean out sludging issues.. have since run Full synthetic oil and now my van runs like a champ) I paid 4K for my van and so far have put in roughly 2k dollars in parts, which i have done 100% myself.. i would think it would be triple that if i had a mechanic or dealer do it. While i love and i do LOVE my van.. if i didnt have a mechanical background i would have bought a 2004 or newer.. where the worst are the issues are power doors breaking.. Best of luck.. hope this helps..
#154 of 177 Re: HELP Buying Used 2001 Sienna [michelleonline]
May 10, 2012 (11:07 am)
In addition to the issues mentioned there is another major one:
For 2000-2002 model , IIRC, sienna had a TSB for replacement of ECM for 8years (expired already) which may result in ECM failure and/or exhaust system catalytic converter failure. ( I had 2001 sienna which I disposed off in March, I had to change both the O2 sensors twice and again the error was coming for O2 sensor failure or Catalytic converter failure think of $$$$ expense in repair).
But if the seller has got the ECM replaced under this TSB then you will be safe. So ask the owner about it.
#155 of 177 TMV pricing on used Sienna?
Oct 02, 2011 (9:55 pm)
#156 of 177 TMV pricing on used Sienna?
Sep 19, 2011 (2:55 pm)
I'd love some feedback from others who have bought used! I am trying to buy a good clean low mileage minivan. I have tried other brands and models with little success; now am trying Toyota.
I have been using Edmunds.com TMV with disastrous results -- nobody seems to accept these numbers. Not dealers, not private sellers. They often get seriously angry if you bring these numbers in.
Example: I have found a very nice clean 2005 Sienna with 50K. But the dealer has it marked $17,950. Edmunds TMV (for dealer retail!) is .... $11,040.
Now that's a darn big gap. I can see going a bit over TMV for an especially nice car, on of the border of "excellent" vs. "good". But $6000? How can there be such a huge gap?
How can I offer $6000 UNDER asking price? I mean, I can negotiate a thousand or two off the price. But $6000?
So which price is correct? And how do I keep from getting ripped off? (The van is not Toyota certified, but "dealer" certified, about a 3 month warranty, nothing worth paying for.)
If I could buy a Toyota van this age and mileage for $11K, I'd be thrilled, but it seems impossible. Dealers all have these marked into the mid-teens. Even a 2004 is about $14-15K. Even private sellers won't go this low.
How can I trust TMV if it is not represented in reality? Who is getting these fabulous deals? NOT ME!
Also: any advice on how to deal with dealers who mark up vehicles sneakily with HUGE document fees. I remember just a few years ago the doc fee was like $60. Then it was $100. Today it is standard to charge $250. I am paying cash, so this is insane -- no credit check, no actual DOCUMENTS. Yet I must pay! If I suggest rolling this into the offer, they go ballistic on me.
I have read here some dealers only charge $75 but I can tell you that is unheard of in NE Ohio!
#157 of 177 Re: TMV pricing on used Sienna? [grrldriver]
Sep 21, 2011 (7:03 pm)
go to the "smart shopper" board-"what is my trade in worth topic and ask this question.There is a dealer there who is very forthcoming on what used cars are going for.Good Luck!
#158 of 177 Re: TMV pricing on used Sienna? [grrldriver]
Sep 22, 2011 (5:35 pm)
You'll find used Toyota's are way overpriced. If you want a much lower price either buy a Chrysler (Caravan or Grand Caravan) or GM (Uplander or Montana). I just bought a 2007 Uplander LT (SWB) with 55k miles for about $11k (taxes incl.). The dealership had a 2004 with 133k miles for about the same price and a 2005 with 88k miles for about $15k. I know Toyota is better quality but these price differentials are ridiculous. The Edmunds TMV for the Uplander was about right. Good luck.
Sep 22, 2011 (6:21 pm)
I finally did buy a 2006 Mazda MPV minivan with 50K -- just a newer version of my old 2001. Not too exciting, but a good solid vehicle. It wasn't as cheap as your Uplander, though.
I had very few choices, and finally decided this was my best option out of the limited ones available. There are very few affordable minivan choices left, and some vehicles like the MPV just aren't in that big supply, or all the ones you see are very high mileage (over 120K).
I think Toyota Siennas are a good van, BUT anyone paying $11K for ANY car with 133k miles, especially in a winter climate, has been deluded into "magical thinking" about the most popular Japanese manufacturers! That's just too much money, and out of whack depreciation on those vehicles.
I definitely found this summer that prices are way up and the supply is way down -- at least of minivans. Many factors, including:
• Cash For Clunkers removed a lot of good vans from the market, unnecessarily (they are/were no more high mileage than an ordinary sedan!)
• The Japanese tsunami delayed a lot of new vehicles, pushing some new car buyers into used
• Overall, MUCH higher pricing on new vehicles of all types has pushed many cash-strapped Americans into used vehicles
• Dealers taking advantage of all this, and jacking up prices
• The fact that since 2006, many of the more moderately priced vans (MPV, Venture, Freestar, Montana, etc.) were discontinued, meaning many fewer choices
It was definitely discouraging. Kia dealers told me that this is the last year for the Sedona, the last of the moderately priced vans. (Chryslers really are not cheap; not anymore!) SO in the future, the choices will be even worse.
I agree that one must often make a tradeoff between ideal quality and price -- some point, price gouging makes even good quality vans like the Sienna simply unaffordable -- at least for me!
#160 of 177 Re: I agree, jpf [grrldriver]
Sep 23, 2011 (7:35 am)
I totally agree about used Siennas being way too pricey, but the silver lining is if you do buy one, the residual values are strong.
I bet I could sell my van for $7000 less than I paid for it, new, 4.5 years ago. They hardly depreciate at all. That's about $130 per month.
Used Kias - my issue with that is the 10.100 goes away, you only get what's left of the 5/60 warranty. Hence low resale.
Sep 23, 2011 (8:42 am)
Good points. People want to buy Siennas, but the pricing is so high they are driven to used --- which has driven the USED prices sky high.
I am quite sure you could sell your Sienna for what you say. I have seen used 2009 Siennas on dealer lots priced only $5000 less than a new model. What ever happened to the old saw that "it depreciates 30% the second you drive it off the lot?" hahahaha.
Also: an interesting article in my local paper about Priuses -- some owners find they can sell after 1 year or 2 years at slightly MORE than they paid....meaning they drove the car for free.
You have an excellent point about the Kia Sedona: it has a horrible resale value (at least, on paper) because A. the warranty goes away and B. dealers won't lease it.
You certainly won't get the resale of a newish Sienna with the Kia. But for a cash-strapped buyer IF you could buy the Kia at Edmunds TMV at the ideal point (IMHO) of 4 years (48 months) of age and under 48,000 (no more than 1000 per month, ideally less) and use that car for 5 years, then you'd be ahead of the Toyota -- quite a bit moneywise.
That assumes you like the Kia (and I do) and would be satisfied with it. Some people attach great value to the brand, over and above actual performance. Some people could not live with having a US carmarker's nameplate on their bumper -- Toyota and Honda are very important status markers in some upscale areas.
One example: my niece (then 20) needed a car for college. Her grandfather had left her a beautiful six year old Buick LeSabre -- with every bell and whistle and 19K on the odometer -- leather, CD player, etc. SHE SNEERED AT IT. She told her parents she'd rather die than show up at school amongst her friends (who all had Toyotas and Hondas) with A BUICK. So they sold it at a big loss, and had to put several thousands together to buy her a Toyota Corolla, with no airconditioning let alone leather seats. It was also a couple years older than Buick. It's needed some maintenance as a result. But GOD FORBID the dear girl drive a "low class American" car, even for free.
I know dozens of such examples. It is very hard to separate the actual quality of Toyota and Honda (which definitely exist) from the "mystique" and I suspect the mystique drives much of the high used pricing.
Unfortunately I cannot afford any "mystique" so I must look elsewhere for car values.
#162 of 177 Re: @jpf [grrldriver]
Sep 23, 2011 (9:48 am)
Priuses -- some owners find they can sell after 1 year or 2 years at slightly MORE than they paid....meaning they drove the car for free.
Incredible, really. But I think they were helped out by a tsunami that basically cut off supply significantly, driving up used prices. Lucky timing.
I'm impressed with what Kia has done lately, but the Sedona is an older design. They did put a modern engine and transmission in it, at least.
I test drove one - my thought was that the base models they were selling for $19 grand were great values. At that price I had no issues whatsoever. The loaded ones pushed high 20s and then suddenly some parts of the interior felt cheap for that price class.
If you can sacrifice options and content, see if you can get a bargain on a base model.
Then add a DVD screen for the kids aftermarket, slap on a portable GPS, and call it good. Haven't shopped lately but if you can start at $20k or so for a new one...and used 3 year old Siennas are the same price, go with the one that will still have a warranty in 2021.