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SUVs Land Rover Land Rover LR2 v Jeep Patriot
60 messages, Last post on Aug 17, 2007 at 9:36 PM
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Replying to: unclejjg (Feb 16, 2007 7:52 pm) Uhhh... not true. LR2/Freelander 2 has been tested on some pretty rigorous terrain. Morroco sand dunes for one that would cause even some 4WD vehicles grief. Pismo Beach 4x4 Recreational Area, Los Padres National Forest, and this is just a fraction of the landscape where the LR2 has been tested. I love Jeeps, and anybody worth their salt knows that Land Rover's history is inspired by and connected to the Jeeps of WWII. Though lately I have not been very fond of the rounded shapes of any SUV (including Jeep). So in the aesthetics department the LR2 is just simply a better looking ride, and can handle off-road and on-road without compromising too much of either. In terms of luxury, refinement and roadability, I think the LR2 wins hands down over the Patriot or Liberty. 
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Replying to: unclejjg (Feb 16, 2007 10:39 am) |
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Replying to: bstoecker (Apr 25, 2007 6:56 am) I wished this was not the case for Jeep as I like Jeeps a lot. I'm a sucker for heritage I suppose, but until Jeep is out of Chrysler's inept hands, I fear for the brand. I do agree with you about the comparison though, the amenities and standard features found in the LR2 simply blow the Patriot away.
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Replying to: yeomancavalry (May 26, 2007 2:47 pm)
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Replying to: plekto (May 27, 2007 11:10 am) First, I didn't have time to drive it. Had 2 kids in tow and limited time. Only sat in and walked around. And stared in a bit of disbelief at the sticker. Nice looking vehicle. Looks so much like the Cherokee, a good thing IMO. Yes, it was loaded and was a limited and a moonroof and had leather, or what they're calling leather. Didnt feel particularly nice. It might have had Nav, I'm not sure. It did have the offroad package. Besides the leather, the rest of the inside is about the cheapest looking plastic I've ever seen. Shame. On the plus side, it all seems to fit reasonably well. And the interior looks a lot better in person than in photos. The rear seats recline - by pulling on a loop of plastic rope. Really tacky, but works well. Full size spare was nice to see. Back to the sticker - over $27,000, and that seems WAY too much for the way the car looks. The other numbers I didn't like were the EPA numbers - 21/23. I thought this thing was going to get high 20s on the road. What happened to that pipe dream? This dealer in California has also decided a good way to make money is bring used Liberty CRDs in from out of state (new CRDiesels are not sold in California due to smog regs). Apparently it's legal if the car has >7500 miles on it. They had 5 of them, all 2006es and all priced a bit above the new Patriot. I'm actually tempted by one of these. Their mileage is rated 22/26 and diesel is cheaper than gas. And they have 295 lb-ft of torque. Hmmm decisions decisions. Gotta drive em to see, but am concerned about the poor hiway rating for the Patriot. Heck, my 1986 Cherokee was rated at 25 hiway, though it was tough to achieve. Still havent seen an LR2. Price may keep me from one anyway.
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Replying to: jeyhoe (Jun 03, 2007 6:00 pm) Lux-i-fying it to death - just say no. The base model is perfectly fine and for $16-18K, it's a steal.(yes, 9-11K in options on that one you looked at!). Mercedes and BMW also do this. The basic car is a fantastic value. But loaded up, it can be 30-40% more than the basic vehicle. So it only really pays to buy a stock, plain vanilla model(though a stock 3 series is still a hell of a car) Then take the basic box of course and toss on some aftermarket accessories. Kind of like you do with a basic Wrangler. Take it out, go on some trails, toss the kids and dog in it, go to the worksite and toss a few dozen 2x4s in it... It drives very much like a more civilized Cherokee. It's a basic truck though - and NOT a car. It never lets you forget that it's a truck. If that's your idea of a SUV(mine actually - I loathe the recent yuppie bling and bloat), then you'll love it. P.S. yes, I know the most basic model is $15K including delivery(and MSRP at that!) - but 4x2 and a *Jeep* is heresy.
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Replying to: plekto (Jun 04, 2007 1:18 pm) But - the base model really wont go anywhere off road will it? From what I've read, you need to upgrade to the off-road setup which includes the 19:1 ratio tranny and costs a couple of grand? Seems the minimum you can get one that'll do its best off road is at least $20K?
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Replying to: jeyhoe (Jun 05, 2007 6:15 am)  They did this to satisfy the AWD/4x4 commuter yuppies I think. The types who never actually go off of the pavement and don't want to pay for it. All manual transmission Jeeps have a manual transfer case, which has a low-range. (though they don't tell you that, it's about the same ratio as the CVT. IE - not a true "off-road" low range like a Wrangler, but no worse than the CVT). Tons cheaper. Sure you lose all of the electronic nanny modes, but I hate those anyways. Figure $18K this way, plus another 2-3K in aftermarket goodies, which are of course, a vast improvement over stock parts as anyone will tell you  EDIT: The Patriot-only Freedom Drive II uses the same ECC, but adds one inch of ground clearance, 17-inch all-terrain tires and aluminum wheels, full-size spare, skidplates, tow hooks, foglamps, manual seat-height adjuster, and a lower ratio for the CVT. *** So the real difference between I and II is the 1 inch higher clearance(tires alone are doing this), aluminum wheels(no big deal to me), full size spare(which can be added - no biggie), plus the other goodies which can be added in(skidplates) or ordered with the vehicle. 14:1 vs 19:1 isn't a huge deal, either, especially since a manual transmission allows you to gain infinitely better control off-road/doesn't try to out think you. Now, if it was a 24:1 or 30:1 or something decent, I'd be all over the CVT - but 19:1 is hardly a jaw-dropping improvement over stock. P.S. the Wrangler is 40:1 in low=range.
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Replying to: plekto (Jun 05, 2007 1:34 pm) Good input. Lemme ask a couple ?s - First, if I was to get a Patriot with a 5speed and 'Freedom I' drive, would this be any better than a RAV4 or an Escape? I mean, isnt it just FWD-based AWD? I am looking into this more so I could be wrong. Your solution is interesting. I did 'build' one on the Jeep site and it comes to about $20K+ the way I'd want it. Much better than $27K+ And all it's missing is the low range 19:1 ratio? And gets 25/29 mileage? A seductive solution. I guess the biggest improvement over the cute utes is the 4WD Lock mode? And a bit more ground clearance? Also, I could get that extra inch by switching to the 17" wheel option? There's no suspension difference? One problem though - I searched within 200 miles of my zip and there are ZIP 5 speeds. Everything I could find is the CVT. Also, the Jeep site is not very clear on exactly what one gets with the 5speed FDI option. It lists a number of options at "no charge" that I have to check to get. That's a no brainer isnt it? I mean do I want free "Off-Road Package" and "Hill Descent Control" and Fog Lamps etc or not? Duh. I suspect the web site is screwed. Could be something I checked helped eliminate the 5 speeds - there MUST be SOME out there. When I bought my 86 Cherokee, there were rows and rows of Jeeps to choose from, lots of em sticks.
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Replying to: jeyhoe (Jun 06, 2007 10:07 am) The Rav-4 has a manual lock mode, but it also has no manual transmission anymore(previous gen Rav-4 did - awesome truck, btw). Yes, the suspension isn't any different. Now, if you're looking at the higher-trim model with virtually nothing on it, you get the 17 inch alloys standard.(for about $20K) *the stock 4x2 model's suspension is completely different, though. The two levels of freedom drive are a very small difference by comparison. You should talk to the dealer(and ignore the "get the CVT" - and get a real quote on one built like you want it - this is a bit like a Mini in that it pays big to get it exactly like you want it. P.S. http://www.leftlanenews.com/video-volvo-vs-subaru-awd.html This is the reason you want full-time AWD or 4x4(lock mode) - there's an enormous difference in how AWD systems work(or most of the time don't). http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4999142340359932162 This video, though obviously biased towards Subaru, shows a couple of amazing things in the wet handling and hill climb portions - the AWD is sometimes making the car *less* safe and capable because it's either too slow to respond or just goes brain-dead trying to figure it out. btw - Jeep's AWD system in lock mode, even with the CVT, works very well. I just personally don't like the CVT. edit - two other things: http://www.carsdirect.com/build/options?zipcode=91020&acode=USB70JDS112A0&restore=false Los Angeles - typical pricing for one.(dealer should come close to this - or just go via cars direct) Note - if Cars Direct says "cars direct price" that means they have inventory and can cut you a deal. If it says anything else, the price in your area is often close to MSRP since it has to be trucked in or ordered. I also noticed that the manual has a 4.21 axle ratio as opposed to the CVT, so I'll physically look at it tonight and verify if it has a low-range on the MT. They may just be showing the normal range and not the 4x4 mode.
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