Last post on Apr 06, 2009 at 9:22 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Pontiac G8, BMW 3 Series, Lexus IS 350, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#63 of 102 Re: Pontiac competing with Lexus and BMW ???? [habitat1]
May 29, 2007 (10:15 am)
You are kidding, right?
No, I mentioned the general public. Not everyone can go to the top of the class medical establishments in this country. The problem is not the best in the country but the availability of the best to all. For every one top establishment and staff there are many that fall way short.
I know there is no panacea, but it's not as easy for everyone to get the best care every time. There are many less-than-average service providers.
Just like the auto manufacturers, there are good but mostly disappointing results in the past 30 years. Take Pontiac as a Division. Sad story, IMO.
#64 of 102 Re: Pontiac competing with Lexus and BMW ???? [circlew]
May 29, 2007 (11:52 am)
"The problem is not the best in the country but the availability of the best to all."
Perhaps, but it's a lot better here than most of the rest of the world. Read an article some time ago about Ben Carson, the renowned neurosurgeon at Johns Hopkins. A significant percentage of his patients are of limited means, many w/o health insurance. When we took my daughter to Children's Hospital a few years ago when she broke her elbow, the waiting room was full of what obviously were people who use the emergency room as their convenient (and free) doctor's office. As I'm sure you aware, a community hospital is not allowed to turn anyone away for lack of financial ability to pay. Want to get a unique perspective on the need for immigration reform, talk with an emergency room physician. Of course it's the working class, bill paying general public that gets stiffed in the process. The average American family of 4 is actually paying for about 6.
I have been known to blast the auto industry as one of the worst examples of American business. For no good reason. It's one thing for the Chinese to steal textile jobs with 20 cent an hour wages. But GM and Ford have lost to everyone. Japan on quality and reliability, Korea on affordability, Germany on engineering and performance. The fact that Porsche makes some of the best engieered cars in the world, then ships 60%+ of them over to the United States because our market can afford them but our industry can't produce them, is just as sad as your Pontiac story.
GE, by the way, makes the best locomotives in the world in my hometown of Erie, PA. Shipping hundreds to China at a cool $3 million a pop. With union labor no less. It hasn't been easy for them to remain competitive over the years, but they've succeeded.
#65 of 102 Hunh?
by KarenS HOST
May 29, 2007 (12:11 pm)
I don't see anything in the title of this discussion asking for comments on immigration, health care, and jobs going overseas. Please keep your comments pertinent to the comparison of these vehicles.
Thanks for your cooperation.
#66 of 102 Re: Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans With and Without Luxury Badges [rockylee]
Jul 10, 2007 (7:56 am)
yuk ! there is nothing that would make me consider the Pontiac G8 over the 3 series car. It is precisely because of the product that I that it makes me shudder to consider the two in the same breath. My wife has had several 3 series cars over the years, and mixed into that time period we have had 3 different GM products. The contrasts between them are night and day. They simply do not belong to the same category. When BMW announced the next M3 (the V8), it became the first car in many years to capture my interest, and I will save my pennies for another year and continue to drive my beater in the mean time (wife gets the nice cars). The 3 series cars are amazing cars to drive, and have very very few comparable peers. The G8 does not belong in the same group as any of the 3 series cars. Just because the G8 has a V8, does not make it a contender.
#67 of 102 Re: Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans With and Without Luxury Badges [k
Jul 10, 2007 (8:18 am)
Agree with you,kivi. The best thing about the G8 is the car is not even available yet and we know the drill. Boring as usual. Get the Camaro out already!
The bottom line to this discussion is HAHAHAHAHA!
#68 of 102 What ever happened to this discussion and predictions of the G8
Jul 10, 2007 (2:46 pm)
being the saviour of GM?
I don't see any remarkable news on the G8 yet?
#69 of 102 Re: What ever happened to this discussion and predictions of the G8 [andres
Jul 11, 2007 (7:03 am)
Try the FV discussion. This one's a comparo between three vehicles.
#71 of 102 Re: Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans With and Without Luxury Badges [kivi]
Nov 18, 2007 (1:11 pm)
In the late '90s I got do drive a buddy's 7-series Bimmer. He claimed he paid over $70,000 for it. I was salivating when I started it up. Probably the biggest automotive disappointment in my life. A horrid drive. The suspension was punishing and the steering required far too much effort at moderate speeds. The hard seats quickly wore out my back and backside. It was a stunningly gorgeous car to eye from the outside but, that aside, a waste. I also got to drive a couple years ago a 3-series. Better ride but not particularly comfortable seats. All this coming from a guy driving a Honda S2000, hardly a car devoted to creature comforts.
I've never owned anything but Japanese. The Pontiac G8 is the first American car I've seriously considered owning in 30 years. It's top on my list when I replace my beater in 2009.
Multiple reviews of the Holden/Vauxhall have compared in favorably to Mercedes and Bimmers. Not that it really matters. Because all the Mercedes/Bimmer owners I've known are status buyers. Nobody's going to suggest there's any prestige to be had owning a Pontiac.
Had I unlimited funds, I'd keep an open mind and give BMW another shot. They've bloated up a bit so their sense of style has deteriorated quite a bit but they're still attractive cars. There's no doubt their interior is going to be far superior in material choices than a G8. But some cost-cutting on Pontiac's part isn't creating any major gaffs from what I've seen and read.
But we all have budgets we must live within and to find a Bimmer which competes on paper with the G8 in size and power you have to climb up their product line to the $58,500 550i. The entry-level (or maybe not with a 1-series brewing) 3-series isn't in the picture except in price as, per BMWs habit, the price of 'status' will suck most people's wallets dry. The G8 GT will base sticker thousands less than the cheapest 3-series.
And the costs don't end there. The costs of ownership greatly favor the G8. Bimmers suck premium gas, are notoriously expensive to maintain once they're off warranty, and can't boast reliability to match their fat premium pricing.
Bimmers are for leasers. I tend to own a car for 10 years so I need something I can maintain. GM's quality is hit or miss so I'll give Consumer Reports a hard look before I take the dive.
#72 of 102 Re: Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans With and Without Luxury Badges [sknabt]
Nov 19, 2007 (12:04 pm)
Bimmers suck premium gas
First off, a bit of research would show that most BMW cars average 22-27 mpg under real world driving conditions. I doubt that a midsize V8 Pontiac will do significantly better. And as for premium gas, just do the math. Let's assume that you drive 15K per year and average 25 mpg- that comes out to 600 gallons per year. If you pay 20 cents more for premium that means you'll pay the princely sum of $120 extra per year. That's 10 bucks a month, or 33 cents per day. Wow.
are notoriously expensive to maintain once they're off warranty, and can't boast reliability to match their fat premium pricing.
Really? The maintenance and repair costs for my 10 year old 3 Series have averaged less than $500 per year over the life of the car. That figure includes ALL maintenance and repair expenses as well as three sets of 16" Z-rated rubber. I've replaced one set of pads/rotors, the serpentine belts and idlers, the timing chain tensioner(DIY $55 and 10 minutes), a brake light switch and a thermostat. That's it. And did I mention that it also sees several track days per year?
I tend to own a car for 10 years so I need something I can maintain.
Me too; I took delivery of my 3 Series twelve years ago this week. It might not be true in your case, but I've found that many people who discuss BMW repair costs are usually relying on second, third, or fourth-hand information- "My cousin's dentist had a patient who knew a friend that talked to some guy at a party, and the guy told him that he overheard somebody at Walmart say that they read somewhere on the internet that it cost $1500 to change the oil in a BMW." Sure, some people DO pay ridiculous amounts to service their Bimmers, but in most cases it's due to the fact that they made a very uninformed choice when seeking quality service facility.
As for the G8, I hope it turns out to be a nice quick, and inexpensive car- if it is, I'll certainly consider one for my next commuter sled. I almost bought a GTO, but I couldn't stomach the "Mutated Cavalier on Steroids" exterior styling.