Last post on Apr 06, 2009 at 8:22 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Pontiac G8, BMW 3 Series, Lexus IS 350, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#93 of 102 Re: Thoughts from a 3-series driver [bvdj84]
Mar 09, 2009 (5:11 pm)
Let's face it, very few new vehicle purchases are sound from a financial point of view. I would agree that buying a used G8 GT for say $19K to $22K (depending on mileage, condition, etc.) may make more financial sense for some folks than spending $25K to $27K on a discounted new one. But even at this price, it's a performance bargain. Heck, a V-6 Malibu or Accord will cost you this!
In my case, I chose to buy a new G8 GT because I was able to get it at the cost of a used one, using $3.5K in GM credit card monies I had accumulated and taking advantage of the red tag discounts when I purchased mine at the end of December. In the end, my final cost was $19.5K, plus tax. As you can imagine, I would have been hard-pressed to find an extremely low-mileage used one at that price. So in my case, it was worth it to buy new.
With that said, could I trade-in my car now and get at least what I paid from a dealer?--maybe, maybe not. I would probably be able to get more money from a private sale, pending I could find the right buyer. I purchased this car, however, with the intent of keeping it for some time and only driving it in "good weather" as a pleasure car. So, buying new was important to me and resale value was not as much of an issue at this juncture. If I keep it in great shape, maybe I will luck-out and get a decent price for it some day like some of the low-mile '04-'06 GTO's are commanding today should I decide to sell.
I would advise anyone looking at used G8 GT's to be careful to know what they are buying. Many of the used ones on the market now are former rental cars. Most of these vehicles have 8K to 15K miles on them and no telling if they have been abused or beat-up. Many folks, however, have been very happy with their rental car purchase, with no problems. If you are okay with a former rental car, that's great, but just know what you are getting to make sure everything is fine with the car. It could be a great value!
Lastly, there is a glut of unsold new cars from other auto manufacturers as well. As for the G8, GM had its best month yet on the sale of G8's this past February with 2,705 units being sold. This was a 50% increase from the previous month! Also, this figure was on the heels of competing BMW 5-Series sold last month. Here is a link to the February GM sales figures:
http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/irol/84/84530/sales_production/Deliver- - - ies_February_2009.pdf
Just my 2 cents.
Mar 10, 2009 (4:05 am)
Circlew, sorry you dont have access to good physician care. Maybe when your company gave you the options in your yearly insurance choice and you clicked the cheapest one and you ended up in a clinic with a 2 hour wait I can see why you are so bitter. You get what you pay for in healthcare as well as anything else. We have the best healthcare in the world. Maybe its expensive but when you can go in and get a procedure done with robots or better still one done with no cutting with lasers or ultrasound and you walk out and go back to work with no bed stay its worth every penny. Healthcare is a privilege deserved by people who actually pay for it, not a right. Look at the constitution. If you want healthcare diluted by losers and illegal aliens then you get what you get and you dont pitch a fit!
I think the G8 looks rockin from the front, very aggressive. The back of it is sort of lame. I heard the steering is a little light on center. Anybody experience that?
#95 of 102 Re: G8 looks [richardga73]
Mar 10, 2009 (9:40 am)
You seem to be responding to a conversation that happened around two years old ago. Let's go back to leaving that be and stick to the cars in the subject line. There are conversations over on the Automotive News board where you can pursue discussion of benefits for automobile workers and other things of that nature.
#96 of 102 Re: Thoughts from a 3-series shopper
Mar 10, 2009 (8:00 pm)
Yeah, I'm shopping new cars at the moment too and drove a 335d and 335i auto (didn't like the turbo lag in the diesel and didn't like the trans in the 335i either). Then I drove a 335i stick and liked it much better. Also drove a G8 GT and was quite impressed with the driveline and chassis. Nice steering feedback and great auto trans-- way better than the Bimmers' auto. And the engine feels and sounds great. Only problem with it is the exterior looks like a Japanese video game, with all the fake scoops and such. Interior is well-put together but not very pretty. Then I drove an '06 Z06. Holy crap that thing goes! And it's loud--but a good loud from the 427 V8. But the seats suck in that car and the steering is numb-- at least in that '06. Haven't driven a post-'08 Vette yet where they allegedly improved the steering.
So, now what? I'd love a 3-series with the G8 engine and trans. Then you'd have something.
#97 of 102 Re: Thoughts from a 3-series shopper [hgerhardt]
Mar 11, 2009 (6:52 am)
Did you have the 335i auto in Sport mode, or regular Drive mode, when you drove it?
I have a 535Xi with auto, and I find the Sport mode much more responsive than Drive, but Drive mode smoother in rush hour traffic.
#98 of 102 Re: Thoughts from a 3-series shopper [bruceomega]
Mar 11, 2009 (11:18 am)
Yes, tried it both ways. It wants to hold upper gears for as long as possible, it seems, probably to maximize gas mileage. It was annoying... you see a hole in traffic, punch it... and nothing for far too long until the computer decides to actually complete the downshift. It's like it can't decide whether to shift one or two gears at once and hesitates until it makes up its mind. Paddle shifting manually worked OK, but that's not how you drive in the city.
The trans in the G8 was immediate in its downshifts. Worked exactly as a good auto should. I also drove a new CTS with the same trans as the G8, but in that application it was more like the Bimmer's auto. Therefore, the software calibration in the G8 is what makes it good.
#99 of 102 Re: Thoughts from a 3-series driver [bowtiefan1]
Mar 14, 2009 (3:12 am)
Thanks to all for the advice re pricing and new vs used.
My 3-series doesn't come off lease for another 9 months, so I've got some time. Leasing the BMW used to make sense b/c the great residuals and included service made it a cheap proposition for a few years. Right now, those residuals are falling fast and BMW is pushing customers to buy rather than lease. I am hesitant to buy a BMW because service costs out of warranty can be insane.
If I get a G8 or Camaro, I will almost certainly buy new. For an American car, the resale values are dismal (as noted by several of you), so the purchase only makes sense if I decide I want to hold on to it until it dies. With a US car, I am not so worried about service costs out of warranty.
#100 of 102 Re: Thoughts from a 3-series driver [steveinvt]
Mar 14, 2009 (7:56 am)
I am hesitant to buy a BMW because service costs out of warranty can be insane.
The two main groups that perpetuate the "BMWs cost a bazillion dollars to fix" myth are:
1. Shady BMW dealers who are trying to scare customers into a new or CPO car.
2. Envious fools with a "sour grapes" mentality.
Speaking of fools, on one of the Mazdaspeed boards(where opposable thumbs are a rarity) some doofus was telling me that he had a friend with a 2008 3er and how the oil service cost $175. I asked why the car wasn't covered by BMW's free maintenance; he said that it was- but the dealer put the price of the service on the invoice to show what it would cost out of warranty. Hmmmm, my dealer never does that, but then they charge less than 60 percent of that price to do the same service.
In addition, where you live also affects servicing costs. My local dealer(Swope BMW, Louisville) performed an Inspection II(AKA the 60,000 mile service) and a brake fluid flush on my wife's X3 for just $374. In contrast, Santa Monica BMW charges $1105 for the same work. I know that the cost of living in California is higher than that of Kentucky, but 295% higher? There are also many good independent BMW shops that offer great service for a reasonable price. And if you are a member of the BMW Car Club you'll find that most dealers and indie shops offer Club discounts of up to 25% on parts and or labor.
If it makes you feel any better, my first truly fast BMW(top speed of over 140) was a 1988 M6 that had just gone out of warranty. The original owner dropped it like a hot potato in 1992 fearing exorbitant running costs- and I gladly picked it up. The only thing that actually was pricey was the engine- a modified version of one of BMW's successful competition engines. The short block alone cost $15K back then. Well, I autocrossed it, tracked it, won countless Stoplight Grand Prix, and in general had a ball with the sled. There were no budget-busting disasters. I only sold it because my kid's car seat wouldn't fit in the rear bucket seat. I still miss it... Having said all that, the newer 7ers and the V8/V10 M cars CAN be pricey to maintain- but the E90/E92 3ers simply aren't that expensive to run.
Note that I'm not saying that the G8 or Camaro would be a bad choice. I just wanted to point out that the running costs for a 3er aren't nearly as bad as some seem to think.
Mar 26, 2009 (8:27 am)
I drove a g8 gt recently. General impressions:
* The sport seats are very nice.
* Wish the sides didn't slope in so much. My head is practically resting on the roof rail.
* The engine, at low RPM, is very very quiet.
* The auto trans started out in a high gear, and i felt like i was lugging the thing. Press gas more, still lugging. Then press a little more and it drops 2 gears and i'm going like a bat out of hell. Would have liked a manual better.
* car is pretty composed even over rough roads, but felt somewhat ponderous.
Seems like a good car for the price, but not sure if it's going to come out ahead of a 335i for me. Maybe the GXP would be better ( manual tranny, stiffer suspension ).
#102 of 102 CTS & G8 GT trans. Re: Thoughts from a 3-series shopper [hgerhardt]
Apr 06, 2009 (8:22 am)
“I also drove a new CTS with the same trans as the G8, but in that application it was more like the Bimmer's auto. Therefore, the software calibration in the G8 is what makes it good.”
Actually, the trans. in the CTS is a 6L50, in the G8 GT, it is a 6L80. They are physically different as well as the software \ calibrations being a lot different.
I test drove a fully loaded CTS DI [ and drove a more mundanely equipped CTS as a rental for almost a week ] and I would agree that the CTS is calibrated much more toward the ‘luxury sedan’ end of the scale – where the G8 GT is calibrated as a ‘sport sedan’. There were several aspects of the CTS trans. [mis-]behavior that I found very annoying, when driven in a [ um ] spirited manner. Though when driven like a more traditional luxury car, with my daughter in the co-pilot’s seat, in & around San Diego for a couple of days – it was acceptable.
Very happy 6L80 driver . . .