Last post on Aug 22, 2008 at 11:00 PM
You are in the Ford Taurus/Mercury Sable
What is this discussion about?
Ford Five Hundred, Ford Taurus, Mercury Sable, Future Vehicle, Sedan, Wagon
#388 of 530 Re: Taurus sales. [gregg_vw]
Oct 22, 2007 (11:32 am)
Yes, the Malibu is a beautiful design and vastly superior to the last generation. I agree that the Taurus will not attract buyers with its looks. That is more reason why Ford needs to shake things up a bit by promoting it's virtues other than looks. A Blandmobile sure isn't going to sell itself.
Someone on another site suggested Ford place a Taurus in every mall in America so people could see it. That would at least show that there is a new Taurus but I doubt if its looks would sell it. I would like to see every owner of a 2000 - 2005 Taurus or Sable offered dinner for two at their favorite restaurant just for taking a test drive in a new one.
#389 of 530 Re: Taurus sales. [brucelinc]
Oct 22, 2007 (2:25 pm)
I think the new Taurus is an excellent design, but, it is not perfect. I like it more than the first impressions of the new Malibu. (I thought the Malibu was MID-sized).
#390 of 530 Re: Taurus sales. [jmn1]
Oct 22, 2007 (3:31 pm)
The Malibu is mid-sized. The Taurus used to be mid-sized, and from some angles still looks mid-sized...even though it is full-sized. The Malibu has a sleeker, more expensive look than the Taurus. From some views, it is reminiscient of the VW Phaeton. Regardless, it is not fat-looking (with the plain-to ungainly proportions) of the 500/Taurus. But the Taurus does offer more room by being more bulbous. Had Ford used some of its design talent better, they could have produced a roomy shape without dialing in so much awkwardness of stance. Look at the prevous generation of the Toyota Avalon. Roomy as a Buick, but no one would call it a pretty car. The current iteration, while even more roomy, is less awkward looking.
Designers can make cars both roomy and proportionally attractive. They just did not achieve that with the 500/Taurus. It will be interesting to see the interior volunes on the Lincoln MKS. It is completely based on the Taurus, but it doesn't look anywhere near as dumpy.
#391 of 530 Malibu is beautiful?
Oct 23, 2007 (10:58 am)
I guess, in a Toyota Camry kind of way.
My problem with the Malibu is that Chevy just seems to be trying to build a better Camary. But what they don't seem to address is why anyone who wants a Camary wouldn't just buy a Camary. Well I guess the Malibu is cheaper.
#392 of 530 Re: Malibu is beautiful? [mschmal]
Oct 23, 2007 (12:34 pm)
I've been following this post and finally have to put in my two cents. I think GM copying the Camry may actually be an excellent idea. Ford should probably do something similar. Ford has lost BILLIONS over the past ten years. (GM has, too, but IĎll limit this to Ford.) They spent the last 20 years moving factories out of the US, claiming they canít make money paying American wages. Toyota has spent the last 20 years (or more) building more than a dozen plants in the US - paying American wages. Ford (and GM) has/have lost BILLIONS and Toyota has made BILLIONS (as has Honda in the USA). Perhaps it isnít the labor costs, but leadership. While reducing labor costs I would bet few, if any, corporate execs lost their jobs. Typically, they get very large annual bonuses. Bonuses for LOSING money!! Hmmmm. One would think the executives making large salaries and bonuses would have had the sense to ask: What is Toyota (or Honda) doing that we are not? Why are the consumers buying their cars and not ours? and similar such questions. But instead, they kept producing crap and watching their market shares diminish. Finally, GM got the point. Copy Toyota! Congratulations GM. If we have no leadership at GM (or Ford) then perhaps we can copy someone who has leadership and is successful. I am in my 50s and wanted to buy an American car made in America. I test drove a Taurus, but shortened my test drive as I thought the car lacked power - if it has 260 hp and 240 lbs of torque some of that must be stored in the trunk. And for those wondering whatever became of the East German womenís Olympic weightlifting team - I would guess they now work for Ford in the design department and are responsible for the appearance of the Taurus. Wake up or lose it all Ford.
#393 of 530 Re: Malibu is beautiful? [juxto]
Oct 23, 2007 (8:37 pm)
"And for those wondering whatever became of the East German womenís Olympic weightlifting team - I would guess they now work for Ford in the design department and are responsible for the appearance of the Taurus. Wake up or lose it all Ford."
3.9, 4.1, 2.7, 4.0, 3.2 and the Russian judge says 6.0 !!
Whoa, tough crowd.
Personally, I dont see any relationship between the Camry and the Malibu. The view pictured here is only slightly simlar. The rear view and the interiors are dramatically different. The grilles part company too in a head on view. I'm hoping the Malibu is a good vehicle, just for domestic sake. GM needs all big hits.
Oh! One more thing, Ford engines seem to be 'tight' when new. I know my LS seemed more sluggish when I test drove it than it became after several thousand miles.
#394 of 530 Re: Malibu is beautiful? [juxto]
Oct 24, 2007 (5:37 am)
This post is very in accurate.
First, Toyota, Honda, etc. are not paying American wages. In fact anyone familar with the Auto industry knows that Ford and GM pay over $20 more per hour for labor than Toyota and Honda do in their American factorys.
2nd, Toyota and Honda do not have the legacy costs that GM and Ford have. Both companies have to pay millions per year in retire health benefits.
3rd. The Japanese government artificially keeps the Yen trading low against the $. This makes it cheaper for Japanses companies to ship components here and for American to buy Japanese built cars. Given the Japan companies a $4,000 to $12,000 advantage per vehicle!
Ford is NOT moving production over seas. Ford has not opened a foreign factory in AGES. The only US sold FLMs not built here are Edge/MKX, and Panther Sedans (Crwn Vic, GMQ, TC) which are built in Canada and Fusion/Milan/MKZ which are built in Mexico.
Ford is closing factories and this is a result of loss of Market Share AND being more effecient at the remaining factories.
#395 of 530 Ford should copy Toyota?
Oct 24, 2007 (5:42 am)
Actually, according to Consumer Reports, Toyota should start copying Ford.
The Ford Fusion is the MOST RELIABLE mid-size sedan in this country and the Toyota Camry V6 is one of the lease reliable.
The Ford F-150 (V6) is the most reliable fullsize pick-up and the Tundra is one of the least.
Don't give up on Ford or underestimate their ability to "out toyota" Toyota. They did it before with the original Taurus. The Fusion is a HUGE hit and so is the EDGE and NEW ESCAPE!
I work at a large Ford Dealer in NJ we are not on a main highway but are part of a dealer group with a good reputation. (Try to find a Toyota dealer with a good rep)
At my dealer, we are turning Edges in less than 20 days!!! and the same with the new Escape!!!
That is so amazing that it is almost impossible to believe.
#396 of 530 Re: Ford should copy Toyota? [mschmal]
Oct 24, 2007 (10:52 am)
It is good that you are so enthusiastic about the products you sell. They are good products. However, "huge hit" could be perceived as an overstatement.
The Fusion is far from the top mid-size seller. The F150 is losing market share. The "New Escape" is clearly the old Escape with running improvements, and some different lines in the sheetmetal. Unlike when Toyota for example updates the RAV4 (each generation starts with new architecture), the "new" Escape has all ther same underpinnings, mount points, much the same glass, etc. I commend Ford for actually doing more for a change than the usual new grill/new rear styling and interior modifications, but they still don't get what Honda and Toyota have known for a long time about how to sustain heavy sales of a product.
Ford could use a huge hit like the original Taurus, the Mustang, or the original Explorer or like the F150. But somehow the Fusion had to really struggle to outsell the old Malibu, which was clearly an inferior car. Getting away from tons of fleet sales is a good thing, but then you begin to see where Ford really stands in the market.
A lot of it is that the suits at Ford don't get why their market share keeps shrinking. If they did, they would not have pinned hopes for salvaging the 500 by putting in a better engine and different grill and changing the name. It's not a car that most people would ever walk across the street to give a second look. Ditto the 08 Focus. Yes, it looks better than whst came before, but it looks too much still like the design issued in 1999 with some lipstick and filigree. Plus, they eliminated the hatchback just as hatchbacks are beginning to catch on again.
BTW, both Canada and Mexico are not the US, and the wage scales there are different. Ford and the UAW created this mess together, what with $78/hour packages and job banks.
The Edge is a good start, but where are the new iterations and new models for other niches? Toyota may be stalling momentarily in its relentless march, but Hyundai has Ford adn Toyota's backs. VW and Audi both are reinventing themselves and have too many new models coming to even keep track of.
Ford just has to get it together to be fast and first, or it will never be a major player again. What have they been doing? Well, trying to unload Jaguar and Land Rover for one thing. It remains to be seen whether that works out for them. It must be clear to some of the suits that they really don't know how to re-make a marque into a winner. After all, they invested untold billions in Jaguar, improved the quality, the products and their reliability. Sales as we all know have tanked. They can't sustain Jaguar with the XK8, and the Edge isn't going to save Ford's passenger car business.
I don't know the answers, but it is clear that Ford does not either. What are they even DOING with old things like the Ranger, the Crown Victoria, the Explorer, the Sport Trac? Where's the innovation in the latest Expedition? Where is their city car? Yes, I know, all coming, all coming. It's very telling that the suits thought that the US needed its own dull designs and that the stellar European Fords would not work here. What's so damnable is that people got paid really big bucks to screw up so badly. Let's see, 2004, the Year of the Car...sheesh.
#397 of 530 Re: Ford should copy Toyota? [gregg_vw]
Oct 24, 2007 (3:59 pm)
What is the Ford approach? My wife and I are retired teachers and I think they are copying the education model. We had a teacher in Orlando write an editorial a few years ago saying she couldn't teach the kids to read because she didn't have enough computers (never the fault of us teachers). When the kids can't read and right or find their own state or country on a map - u raise taxes and build new schools and tell people "it's for the kids". Unfortuntately for Ford, they are not a government entity and if they are inept or lose money for any reason they can't raise taxes to subsidize Ford "for the automotive buyers". It's a competetive world and building the same thing that failed year after year will not result in success this year.