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What Are Your Thoughts on the Return of the Taurus/Sable?

530 messages,  Last post on Aug 22, 2008 at 11:00 PM

You are in the Ford Taurus/Mercury Sable Forum.

What is this discussion about? Ford Five Hundred, Ford Taurus, Mercury Sable, Future Vehicle, Sedan, Wagon

Messages Page 23 of 54

#218 of 530 My 500 thoughts by receiver88

Feb 22, 2007 (12:08 am)

I've had my 2007 Ford Five Hundred SEL for almost two months now as a company car. I thought I'd share my thoughts with this board.
 
My likes:
 
1) Excellent space and comfort, love the trunk.
2) Feels safe due to its size
3) Pretty good gas mileage
 
My dislikes:
1) Very bland design
2) Interior design is way behind its competitors... just way too plain.
3) Lack of power. Although it is barely adequate, I can feel the engine struggling especially going up the hilly areas in my neighborhood.
 
Although my comments are nothing new to this board, I thought I'd throw out my two cents. This is my third Ford vehicle since my company only provides Fords. I also do quite a bit of traveling and have rented many different makes and models. For a company vehicle, the Five Hundred is above-average compared to the other company vehicles out there... such as the Taurus and the Escape.
 
However, I am very disappointed at how much Ford lags behind the imports as well as GM in overall interior and exterior design. Ford just can't seem to get their act together it seems. For example, I have rented both the Hyundai Azera and the Sonata. I have to say I was quite floored with how nice the interiors were. I really liked the Azera in particular. If given a choice between that and the Five Hundred, I would take the Azera in a heartbeat. I can't understand how a company such as Hyundai can improve by leaps and bounds while Ford is just stagnating it seems. I'm pulling for the Big 2.5 to regain success in the US market, however it seems only GM is really making any progress. I had recently rented a Saturn Aura XE and was very impressed with both the interior and exterior design. I also was impressed with the Chrysler 300 that I rented some time ago as well as the Pontiac G6.
 
Why is it that Chrysler and particularly GM of late have been stepping up their game while Ford continues to flounder. My point is that the Five Hundred is an OK product, but it will not stop Ford from this uncontrollable slide they are experiencing. It is just unbelievably frustrating how incompetent Ford comes across. I was always pulling for Ford because I hate to see people lose their jobs due to management's mistakes, but when I see some of the things they do, I feel Ford deserves to go belly up. I just hope that my company will eventually provide other makes and models besides Fords.

#219 of 530 Re: Value vs Image [zxw] by gregg_vw

Feb 22, 2007 (6:00 am)

Replying to: zxw (Feb 21, 2007 10:30 pm)
You apparently are confused by the term "badge engineering." BE is when you take a car and change the grill, talilights, and other minor details, and then slap another brand and model name on it (e.g., 500 and Montego). The Avalon and Camry share some of the same architecture, though the Avalon is definitely a bigger, roomier, more powerful car than Camry. Heck, the Fusion and Edge share architecture too...anyone see badge engineering there?
 
Badge engineering is lame, unless it is done like the Astra, where in one country it is a Vauxall or an Opel, and in another it is marketed as a Saturn. Sharing architecture on the other hand us just good business and good design,
 
BTW, the resale argument is kind of fluffy. You pay less for the 500 and you get less for it when you trade. You pay more for an Avalon and get more for it on trade. However, for similarly equipped cars, the amount of money laid out over three to five years is very similar when either is sold.
 
Just depends on what you want. Some people mught prefer to tie up less money in their ride, but ultimately, there isn't much difference in the dollars you actually lose over time. Lots of people forget that because they pay more for a Toyota to begin with, that they HAVE to get more on trade in, just to more or less even things out with the Ford.

#220 of 530 Re: Good Move [gtee] by nvbanker

Feb 22, 2007 (7:23 am)

Replying to: gtee (Feb 21, 2007 11:08 am)
What statement does driving Ford Taurus make?
1. Traveling salesman in a company car.
2. Lost tourist driving a rental car.
  
What statement does driving Ford Focus make?
1. Poor student who could not afford a Civic.
  
What statement does driving Ford Crown Vic make?
1. Under cover cop / homicide detective.
  
What statement does driving Lincoln Town Car make?
1. On your way to airport to pick up your next customer.
  
What statement does driving a Mercury Grand Marquis make?
1. On your way to Florida for winter.
  
What statement does driving a Ford 500 make?
1. Love those rebates.
 
HeHe - those are really good, and fairly accurate too, IMO. I do disagree on Hyundai and Kia having a better rep -I have purchased and driven both, and Hyundai may have surpassed Ford's rep now, but not Kia. They are cousins, I know, but there is a huge difference, - Kia is like the Yugo division of Hyundai, and I refuse to represent Kias anymore. Never had one that didn't have the Check Engine light come on.
 
Anyway, keep in mind that I drive a Lexus when I counter-point with these....
 
What statement does driving a Yaris make:
1. Really worried about future gas prices
2. Want the cheapest best car I can buy.
 
What statement does driving a Camry make:
1. Could care less about style, just want good car.
 
What statement does driving an Avalon make:
1. I like the Crown Vic - but prefer foreign cars.
 
What statement does driving a Corolla make:
1. I like ugly cars, and I'm young and poor.
 
What statement does driving a Hyundai Accent make:
1. Single woman's first new car she could afford.
 
What statement does driving an Elantra make:
1. It's a rental.
 
What statement does driving a Sonata make:
1. It's a better rental
 
What statement does driving an Azera make:
1. No, really, it has leather! Honest!
 
What statement does driving a Kia Amanti make:
1. I'm an Avalon wannabe, but I cost less than a Yaris.
 
Nobody is putting more cars into rental fleets right now than Hyundai..... They're good cars, but in a Chevy kind of way. Rough, tough and plain.

#221 of 530 Re: Good Move [barnstormer64] by bristol2

Feb 22, 2007 (7:48 am)

Replying to: barnstormer64 (Feb 21, 2007 8:13 pm)
'People by cars not only for their utility/transportation value, but also for the statement it makes about them.
  
Not smart people.'
 
Bill Gates is not smart because he drives a top of the line Lexus not a Corolla?
 
Vehicle image is not soley a narcissistic thing. Many people in sales need a vehicle that suggests to potential clients that they are successful.
Any lawyer who drives a yaris would not be the guy I want representing me.
If the CEO of my company shows up in a Civic, I'm not sure that suggests success.
 
Vehicle image is more complex than 'I don't waste money on cars and that makes me smart'. For the folks that are not taking food off the table or missing out on owning their own home, what does it matter if they want to drive something that they feel reflects an image?

#222 of 530 Re: Good Move [nvbanker] by w9cw

Feb 22, 2007 (8:02 am)

Replying to: nvbanker (Feb 22, 2007 7:23 am)
Let's face it, image, and overinflated egos, are what sell many of the high line makes, and many SUVs here in the good old USA. Manufacturers love it, as they make substantially larger profits supplying what egocentrics "think" they need.
 
That being said I just bought a 2001 Sable LS Premium with 36,000 miles on the clock for my daughter who's in graduate school for $6,000. The car was never a rental, but was owned by "the proverbial old lady" since original purchase. A good find . . .
 
The Taurus and Sable are tremendous buys on the used market for the informed buyer, unconcerned about image, but very poor buys on the new market due to historically horrendous depreciation. Ford's marketing needs some serious help, and the first step would be to bring ALL of the European Fords to the USA ASAP. Renaming the Five Hundred and its Mercury counterpart, the Taurus/Sable respectively, is not one of Ford's more brilliant marketing moves.
 
Nothing wrong with Hyundai . . . I bought a 2006 Elantra for my wife in December 2005, and it's had absolutely no issues since purchase. The same can't be said about the last Honda Accord I owned, or for that matter, the last Camry I owned. Both had more warranty claims in the first six months of ownership than the Elantra in over a year (zero). The largest problem Hyundai has in this country is marketing perception, not the quality of their product. The ONLY person I have to impress is myself, I could care less of what others think.

#223 of 530 Re: Value vs Image [barnstormer64] by thegraduate

Feb 22, 2007 (10:28 am)

Replying to: barnstormer64 (Feb 21, 2007 10:33 pm)
And yes, image does matter.
  
Not to those who believe in VALUE.
 
That's one opinion, but it's not necessarily the only one. I happen to think both can exist. They aren't mutually exclusive.

#224 of 530 Re: Good Move [w9cw] by gtee

Feb 22, 2007 (10:37 am)

Replying to: w9cw (Feb 22, 2007 8:02 am)
Some people on this forum claim that style and image don’t matter, and that VALUE is king. Fine that is valid argument. What I claim is that Ford 500 is not a great value, and for sure it has no style or image. I am sure that most people here know that Ford 500 is based on the Volvo S80, the so called D3 platform. Well what is a D3 platform? According to web:
 
“Ford's D3 platform is slightly different from Volvo's original P2. For example, D3 features steel suspension arms, rather than aluminum, and other material cost-saving measures.”
 
This means that Ford 500/Taurus is based on a cost reduced platform which was introduced in 1999 (8 years old now) on a car that did not sell all that well and was not really known for any good attribute other then safety. I mean nobody claimed that Volvo S80 was a driver’s car. The best that can be said about Volvo S80 was that is was a safe car.
 
Now Ford takes that platform and applies “cost-saving” measures to it. What does cost saving measures mean? Steel was used instead of Aluminum for suspension, lower strength steel was used for the body, less brackets and reinforcements in the body. I don’t know exactly what was changed, but I do know that when manufacturer tries to save money, they cut corners.
 
The funny thing is that the new Volvo S80 no longer uses this platform. It is based on a new platform:
 
“The new S80 is based on the EUCD platform which was mainly developed by Volvo itself, also used for vehicles including Ford's S-MAX and Galaxy large MPVs”
 
The next problem with the “Value” question is the power train used in Ford 500. The 3.0l engine is weak, but its durable and reliable. The problem is with the transmission. Some of the cars came with CVT transmissions. FORD STOPED MAKING THEM. This “strange” transmission was only used on Ford 500 / Freestyle for 4 years, and then it was discontinued. I don’t know what the durability of this transmission is, but I know that it costs a fortune to replace if it fails. This means that if this transmission fails, the car is worth ZERO. It would cost more to replace the transmission then the car is worth.
 
So where is the VALUE in having that car that will be worth nothing if transmission fails? Where is the VALUE in driving a car based on cheapened 8 year old technology? Where is the VALUE in driving a car with no style or power? You want VALUE, buy a 2001 Sable for $6000.
 
The 1986 Ford Taurus was a revolutionary car based on a brand new platform with brand new style with brand new engine and transmission. It was not a 1980 Ford FAIRMONT with a new nose. (Which by the way is what the new 2008 Taurus is……………)

#225 of 530 Re: Good Move [bristol2] by nvbanker

Feb 22, 2007 (12:34 pm)

Replying to: bristol2 (Feb 22, 2007 7:48 am)
Any lawyer who drives a yaris would not be the guy I want representing me.
If the CEO of my company shows up in a Civic, I'm not sure that suggests success.
 
Value oriented people hate this, and deny it, but it's reality. I'm one of those people for whom my ride must convey that I'm doing well, or my clients will run. Fact of life, like it or not.

#226 of 530 Re: Good Move [nvbanker] by gregg_vw

Feb 22, 2007 (1:07 pm)

Replying to: nvbanker (Feb 22, 2007 12:34 pm)
Though that still represents "value." Your more expensive vehicle nets you more business and income. Driving a Kia Rio for you would be "penny wise, pound foolish." Further, there are tax benefits to larger vehicles in some professions, and so on.
 
On the other hand, one could drive an Audi A8 (at $70,000) or a Bentley Flying Spur (at $170,000) and not see any payback for that extra $100,000. That choice is just personal preference, and how much extension of a personal appendage one thinks he needs to buy.
 
Another example: a guy can buy his daughter a Z4 or a Z8 to drive in college, but the guy who buys the Z4 is a bit more sensible. The parents who buy the 2001 loaded Sable for the kid are that much more sensible...and value oriented.

#227 of 530 Re: Image [barnstormer64] by albook

Feb 22, 2007 (2:51 pm)

Replying to: barnstormer64 (Feb 21, 2007 8:14 pm)
And then, of course, there are those who'll pay even MORE for a Lexus, to basically get some gold lettering for the car name on the back of the vehicle.
THey actually get a lot more comfort and technology in lexus than toyota, which is more than I can say for lincoln vs ford. But then again, the step from ford's short comings to toyota's refinement makes the step from toyo to lexus look miniscule.

Messages Page 23 of 54

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