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Sedans Ford Taurus/Mercury Sable What Are Your Thoughts on the Return of the Taurus/Sable?
530 messages, Last post on Aug 22, 2008 at 10:00 PM
You are in the Ford Taurus/Mercury Sable Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
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Replying to: gregg_vw (Feb 18, 2007 7:52 am)
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Replying to: nvbanker (Feb 18, 2007 11:53 am) Their moves to turn things around aren't doing much so far. The Fusion is a superior car to the current Malibu, but the Malibu still handily outsells it. The Edge is not s superior product, having been damned with faint praise on one end, or come in last in comparison tests on the other. The Taurus and Sable won't even be here until summer (the original plan was first quarter or spring). The Taurus X has been pushed off to late summer or fall. The 08 Focus isn't going to make big lines at the showrooms. The 08 Super Duty should do well with the new diesel, but Dodge and GM are issuing diesels with similar hp and torque in their 08 models, so there is no possibility of relying on that design for more than a couple years. The Super Duty, Escape, Explorer, Expedition, 500/Taurus re-do's have all been conservative efforts, and Ford ends up with vehicles that largely look like the old models. The F150 re-do is now pushed off to 2009. I am hoping it is not a change-the-front-clip-and-interior type-thing with engineering improvements underneath. This hiding new stuff under a bushel doesn't work. The next big thing from Ford is the Fairlane thing-y. The MKS will likely be summer of 2008, and we all know this won't salvage Lincoln by itself. Still no good news for Mercury, the last remaining brand that is completely badge engineered. Will they take it in Saturn's direction, or will they keep it as rebadged Fords to fill the Lincoln showroom? Mercury wasn't always badge engineered, and if Chrysler-Dodge-Jeep/Kia-Hyundau/Chevy-Pontiac-Buick-Saturn/Nissan-Infiniti, etc. can somehow find a way in very bad times to differentiate their lines more, why can't Ford? Lack of will and imagination more than anything. Yes, things could turn around for Ford. But the cards are not stacked in their favor right now.
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Replying to: gregg_vw (Feb 18, 2007 1:49 pm) The insiders I respect on the other boards I visit say that the 2009 F150 update is nothing more than what you describe, with the new Hurricane V8's. The best thing in the world for both GM and Ford in North America may be for DCX to spin Chrysler off (probably keeping Jeep for itself) and let Chrysler liquidate. There's too much capacity, too many brands, and too many new vehicles. There have been predictions for 20 years that there will be consolidation and/or liquidation in the auto industry. Something has to give soon.
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Although the Taurus may be welcome by many, it will not be a breakthrough but only a smart move by Mulally to save Ford from the abyss. It will not be Avalon/300 killer, but if in some way is perceived as a quality, well equipped car it will attract buyers, even those who may be thinking about a Camry/Accord/Impala. I just hope that Ford does not cheapen the Taurus by offering killer cash rebates in the first year anyway. It is hoped that the car is marketed to appeal to different segments, but not as one size fits all. At one point in time the Taurus was the best selling sedan. Ford shot itself in the foot and let the competition surpass it.
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Replying to: ehaase (Feb 18, 2007 2:32 pm) That only seems to be a problem for Ford though - GM does that with their SUVs and trucks, and gets rave reviews - but if Ford doesn't redesign their truck from the wheels up - it's shameful! The truck platform is fully up to date, constantly improved, frame is stiffer, suspension is updated as technology improves. Reskin it, and put the Hurricane in it - sounds great to me. It's a great truck.
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Replying to: danielj6 (Feb 18, 2007 4:00 pm) You miss one of the GREAT reasons to buy a Ford Five Hundred instead of an Avalon . . you can get it a LOT cheaper . . especially if there are incentives on it. People need to quit paying attention to MSRP and pay attention to WHAT YOU HAVE TO PAY for the car. One has almost ALWAYS had to pay near MSRP for Toyotas, and could get Fords near invoice (less whatever incentives were out there . . usually 500 bucks or so). Sure, it'd be simpler if Ford just put the MSRP a lot closer to the true selling price, I suppose. But SMART people look at the bottom line, not at MSRP.
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Replying to: nvbanker (Feb 18, 2007 4:01 pm) The 1999 Navigator still uses the same body with fairly superficial front and rear modifications. The 1999 windshield will fit in the 2007 Navigator. The same front windows will fit. Under the thick chrome, it still uses the same exterior doorskins. Sure, some customers don't see it. But the vehicle ends up looking much the same year after year after year. I think the fact that Navigator, Expedition, Explorer, Ranger, Focus, Sport Trac, etc. all lost their sales leads speaks to the arrogance of a company that believed that they could fool most of the people and save money by recycling sheet metal for 8, 10 , 12 years or more. Yes RESKIN it as you say, and put the Hurricane in it. Great! Except it sounds like no reskin at all, but the Ford way of keeping the same body, changing the front clip, and doing some updates underneath. How many more years before they discover that GM's way actually sells more vehicles? The ony reason the F150 is still ahead is that the 2004 re-do was complete. Not one body part carried over. Now, the F150 has the new Silverado lapping at its heels. What happens with the 2008 model year? Even if it stays in front, that "new" 2009 will be at a big disadvantage if it has to carry the same greenhouse, etc. for another long model cycle.
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Replying to: gregg_vw (Feb 18, 2007 5:32 pm) It hasn't to me, and I'm not sure it has to the public either. I look well beyond the skin in a car - and I discovered that GM may change the windshield, but have the same old engine under that new hood they had in the 60's (ala the 3800, 231cid Buick engine still used with EFI). Pushrods and carburators were the technology for GM is the 80's and early 90's while Ford had fuel injection on all of their engines by 1986. While Ford had multi port FI on all of their engines and some OHC and DOHC engines on line in the early 90's, GM had throttle body fuel injection finally on all their old engines, oh, and the NOrthstar - in one line of cars, that had a severe oil consumption and carbonization problem. I could go on and on - but up until very recently, the past 2 years, GM was losing market share faster than Ford was, with their carryover doors and windshields, but air conditioned seats, independent rear suspension and rear seats that powerfold - something GM still can't make work in their SUVs, but hey - the windshields are new. 
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Replying to: nvbanker (Feb 19, 2007 10:57 am)
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Replying to: pnewby (Feb 19, 2007 11:10 am) I could be wrong, but when people walk into a Ford dealership, they see showroom stuff that looks much like the units on the pre-owned side of the building. Ford has adopted a pattern of making their redesigns look like other companies mid-cycle freshening. Not changing the stuff people see first (the superficial outside shape and skin) may discourage some people from even trying the vehicle out, and thereby realizing there are substantial improvements underneath. There is a long tradition of sheetmetal change bringing people in for a look. It is ancient history of course, but just for an example take a look at the 1960 Galaxie and compare it to a 1961, then 62, then the 63 then the 64. These were all in the same product cycle, but each year they re-bent all the metal. Is it important, really? No. Except that it sold more cars. Ford neglects two things over and over: innovative styling and keeping up with the hp wars. I sometimes think they got so conservative styling-wise in the late 90's because of the strange 1996 Taurus. This car went past polarizing, and into wacko weird. Fear of stepping outside the lines has led to a careful recycling of bodies that used to sell well. But neither "wayout weird" nor conservative is doing it for Ford. The lesson is that the first Taurus did have groundbreaking style. Unlike the 96, it wasn't weird or different just to be different. It saved the company then. They need a couple vehicles like that now.
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