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Automotive News & Views Right To Repair - A Hot Issue or Big Problem?
133 messages, Last post on Oct 06, 2009 at 3:25 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: bottgers (Oct 12, 2007 10:30 am) I don't know how auto makers could make anything "illegal". They could void warranties if a DIY'er tries to "FIX" or upgrade parts under warranty. As for routine maintenance prohibition, a lot of tire companies, oil changers and independents would be quite upset. |
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Replying to: bottgers (Oct 12, 2007 10:30 am) At one time [a very long time ago], some of the manufacturers were pushing for repairs to be done by certified/licensed mechanics, such as is done in some countries. But they met quick resistance by groups who pretty much shoved the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act in their faces, so it was dropped as quickly as it was mentioned. Given how fast cars are changing, esp as more esoteric powerplants come along, it will be virtually impossible for a DIY'er or an Indy mechanic to fix a car,let alone service one. I have to disagree with that. They are complex, there is no question about it, but the aftermarket tooling is keeping a fairly decent pace with them. Add to the fact that Indy shops are paying for that training more and more every day. I don't work for a dealer, yet I go to GM and Ford training every year. It is the same in alot of other products. Only their maker is equipped to fix them. But a lot of DIYers still fix alot of other products. There are mechanics out there who would love to require auto owners to not be able to work on their vehicles, but they are the same ones who would do their own plumbing and electrical in their house. Even though a licensed elctrician or plumber is required, homeowners are not required to be licensed in most states. So those types of people are hypocrites. They could void warranties if a DIY'er tries to "FIX" or upgrade parts under warranty Nope, they can't. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act specifically prohibits them from doing that. They can void warranties for using inferior parts or non-approved aftermarket parts, but they cannot void a warranty, because someone does their own repairs and service, provided the repairs are done properly.
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Replying to: 0patience (Oct 12, 2007 4:38 pm) Add to the fact that Indy shops are paying for that training more and more every day. I don't work for a dealer, yet I go to GM and Ford training every year. no offense, but current ford's and Chevy's are pretty simple cars compared to a BMW, Volvo, Mercedes. Evena Prius. No indy mechanic can gain the same proficiency as a dealer mechanic that only works on 1 brand of car. Next, there are the computer issues. Most lux and even soem immport makers have their own dedicated computer networks. You either have to buy theri machine, or subscribe to their network. It isn't cheap either way. Most indy mechanics bring us the cars that require software work,and that is most Volvo's after 2000. This isn't about changing oil, or rotating tires. That is simple and likely to stay that way. Fixing a broken car is complicated and getting more so every day.
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Replying to: volvomax (Oct 13, 2007 8:43 am) no offense, but current ford's and Chevy's are pretty simple cars compared to a BMW, Volvo, Mercedes. I have Volvo Factory traiing every year too. I understand what you are saying and agree in some parts, but that is that mentallity that dealers have that is irritating to the rest of the industry and why the right to repair act was even started. As for the software work, since Volvo requires access to their main systems to reprogram, I guess they have everyone by the (you know whats). Indies can't very well do something that the manufacturer won't supply to the outside market. I guess I don't know anything about fixing cars, so I'lll shut up.
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Replying to: 0patience (Oct 13, 2007 10:29 am) Really? Where do you do your training? As for the software work, since Volvo requires access to their main systems to reprogram, I guess they have everyone by the (you know whats). Indies can't very well do something that the manufacturer won't supply to the outside market. Volvo will supply it. For a helluva fee. Most indy's can't/won't spend the money for it. Which is why we end up doing all their computer work. Sooner or later, this approach will trickle down to the mass marketed cars. Lux makers like Volvo, Lexus, Benz etc are at the forefront of this, but it will find its way to Honda's and Chevy's. I guess I don't know anything about fixing cars, so I'lll shut up. Relax, there are still plenty of old cars to fix. |
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Replying to: volvomax (Oct 15, 2007 9:46 am) Yeah, I'm old school - I guess a wireless download right to the car on Tuesday nights at 3 am would be ok. 
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Replying to: steve_ (Oct 15, 2007 10:53 am) |
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Replying to: volvomax (Oct 15, 2007 9:46 am) Portland and Seattle mostly. Other times, they bring in some folks from Volvo on site to do the training. Volvo will supply it. For a helluva fee. Most indy's can't/won't spend the money for it. Which is why we end up doing all their computer work. Interesting. Beings as the programming is sent from Volvo to the dealer's computer to the vehicle through an interface. Curious as to how an independant can get Volvo to do that, when they won't even do it for large fleets who make the provisions part of their contract. Besides, you are using the arrogance of the "luxury" vehicle manufacturers, which is why the Right to Repair act was started in the first place. The idea that ONLY the dealer mechanics should be able to fix their brand of vehicles.
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Replying to: 0patience (Oct 15, 2007 3:33 pm) Hmm. I don't think that you know how Volvo does their software downloads. Which, if you were factory trained you would know. Volvo uses VIDA, which is an internet based system. That means anyone who can access the web address, and get Volvo's operational software downloaded to their PC or laptop can use the system. See what I mean about Indy's not being up to spec?
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Replying to: steve_ (Oct 15, 2007 10:53 am) People screw up their computers all the time because they try to change something and don't know how to do it. Cars are not different. They are just rolling computers. Imagine how pissed you would be if you downloaded, say a software update for the suspension module and you Xenon headlights went off aim. Which has happened. Without the proper training, you would know that you have to re-calibrate the headlight aiming. Volvo( or any other car co.) simply can't take the time to make their software idiot proof, or lay person friendly. Nor can they set up the necessary hot lines so cutomers can fix what they screw up. sometimes it can take the dealer days to hear from volvo baout a software issue.
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