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Right To Repair - A Hot Issue or Big Problem?

133 messages,  Last post on Oct 06, 2009 at 3:25 PM

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What is this discussion about? Electrical


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#21 of 133
Re: My view. [Mr_Shiftright] by 0patience
Mar 25, 2007 (10:26 am)
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Mar 25, 2007 9:49 am)

I agree with you on the light.
They have taken it to an extreme.
It should be like the heavy trucks, where there is an Engine Warn light and an Engine shutdown light.
One is for the incidental stuff like low coolant and such. The other is for things that will cause catastrophic failure.
 
What they should do is allow you to view what the trouble codes are when they present themselves.
It bothers me that we have the technology to have most electronics do self diagnostics, but they display them in codes, not descriptions.
If you had a Check engine light come on and where able to push a button to display a small summary and the code number, it would provide you with necessary information to determine which course of action to take.
 
Then the education of how the codes work is necessary, which is something our group of guys try to work on.
#22 of 133
Re: My view. [0patience] by nippononly
Mar 26, 2007 (6:49 am)
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Replying to: 0patience (Mar 25, 2007 9:37 am)

You DID know I was being facetious with my remark that giving the consumer more information is a bad thing, right? I am for more information all the time for the consumer.
#23 of 133
Re: My view. [nippononly] by 0patience
Mar 26, 2007 (9:29 pm)
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Replying to: nippononly (Mar 26, 2007 6:49 am)

Oops, my bad.
Sometimes it is hard to tell and to be honest, there are folks out there who believe that information for the consumer is a bad thing.
#24 of 133
Re: The warranty [boaz47] by 4machines
Apr 01, 2007 (5:50 am)
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Replying to: boaz47 (Feb 06, 2007 1:30 pm)

Perhaps more of us would be willing to use the dealer if we were not so aware of how much we are being overcharged ? I once lived with a service manager for a time as a roommate. The things he told me about dealerships and where they make profit was nearly unbelievable. Here's how it works and why we pay so much at the dealer. The owner of the dealership marks the part up when service orders it. Then service "sells" it to the mechanic in the service bay for a markup. So there it is markup twice. Its a terrible thing. This on top of today's labor prices.
#25 of 133
Re: The warranty [4machines] by Mr_Shiftright HOST
Apr 01, 2007 (7:34 am)
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Replying to: 4machines (Apr 01, 2007 5:50 am)

If the dealer charges me $15 for the same oil filter I can buy for $6, I really don't care as long as my car is done fast, done right the first time. I'm sure....certain...in fact, that taking my car to the dealer for its 5,000 mile check ups costs me $75 more than taking it to the local gas station or to a chain store. And I'm sure that the "list" of "things to do" on a 5,000 mile check contain items that are merely a glance from a mechanic at the dealer....and that's fine, too, with me, because at least the dealer technician knows where the part is that he's supposed to glance at.
 
As long as my car is done in two hours, comes back all cleaned up, and runs like a top...hell, overcharge me...
 
BUT....(and here the skies darken)...for this amount of money, the car had BETTER be right and done professionally in every respect or the whole picture changes with me.
 
Even IF the automakers released every bit of technical information to independent shops, most couldn't keep up, especially the ones doing multi-car services. I go to the dealer because they know the product best. But, after warranty, would I go to an independent who specialized in my make of car? Yeah, probably I would if they were good. Would I save a lot of money doing that? Probably not a lot, no, because overhead in a top notch indie shop isn't cheap either.
#26 of 133
Re: The warranty [Mr_Shiftright] by rockfish1
Apr 01, 2007 (5:50 pm)
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Apr 01, 2007 7:34 am)

When the discussion is on the right to repair, does this mean that the proprietary information explaining how any software and firmware is constructed should to be revealed or does it means that a definition of codes should be revealed along with a possible cause when multiple codes are listed or something else.
 
Being a DIY'er, I am able to perform fewer and fewer tasks on my cars. Fortunately, they don't require the same amount of attention when my high tech tools consisted of a timing light and dwell meter.
#27 of 133
Re: The warranty [rockfish1] by Mr_Shiftright HOST
Apr 02, 2007 (6:31 am)
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Replying to: rockfish1 (Apr 01, 2007 5:50 pm)

Oh I think that a better code definition and possibly even troubleshooting instructions would be enough. It's not likely that most consumers will be re-mapping their car's computers, etc.
 
Of course we can only expect so much. No diagnostic tool yet available allows even the most up to date technician to positively idenitfy the exact defective component just by plugging in a device.
#28 of 133
Re: The warranty [Mr_Shiftright] by rockfish1
Apr 03, 2007 (4:05 am)
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Apr 02, 2007 6:31 am)

Yes, I would like comprehensive troubleshooting instructions so this DIY'er would have a chance to find and replace the correct parts.
 
I only repair my own cars so my experience is limited but I have found some repair manuals like Helms for Dodge give some troubleshoot road maps. Honda manuals seem to be more general.
 
If I can pull the money together I would like to buy one of the new code scanners from Actron (CP9190) or Autoxray (6000) that should provide code scanning for common and propriety multiple codes. Once I have the codes then it is a matter of discussing the problem on various web sites to track down the real problem. Of course if it is a problem that requires quick repairing I must use the repair shop.
 
Have you tried any of the above scanners? Which ones do you prefer?
#29 of 133
Re: The warranty [rockfish1] by Mr_Shiftright HOST
Apr 03, 2007 (6:39 am)
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Replying to: rockfish1 (Apr 03, 2007 4:05 am)

I haven't tried them. One issue I'm exploring is that apparently they will not read every thrown code--so you could spend this money and still be completely in the dark, it seems.
#30 of 133
Re: The warranty [Mr_Shiftright] by rockfish1
Apr 03, 2007 (10:06 am)
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Apr 03, 2007 6:39 am)

I heard some scanners will not read the propriety codes. I believes some have a letter prefix. Before buying I would check some sites to determine if the "secret" codes are read and stored. I believe the Actron CP9190 will read them. Since I only work on my own cars this i something I will be able to determine. I will have to chance the scanner will work on any future cars which is why I am still doing some research since this equipment is expensive.
 
I am pleased that at least the scanners are available since not that long ago the DIY'er had few options to determine any information from computer and sensor problems. With the scanners and some web sites where code info and their reasons can be shared or purchased I still have a possibility of finding and fixing a problem myself.

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