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Automotive News & Views Right To Repair - A Hot Issue or Big Problem?
133 messages, Last post on Oct 06, 2009 at 3:25 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: 0patience (Nov 27, 2007 11:10 pm) I think we're heading that way. I've fixed a lot of computers by swapping parts around and I have no transistor or electrical theory background. I'm hoping that all the electrical diagnosis scanners that you are paying big bucks for will trickle down and wind up being onboard the car one day. So the car will flash the idiot video screen and tell you what broke, how it tried to heal it, and what needs to be swapped out. It's not cost effective to resolder a resistor in a circuit board - are there still a lot of backyard starter/generator shops rebuilding alternators? I figure most of those guys have retired and that business is all bolt on now. The economics of simply swapping out a factory rebuilt tranny or differential may outweigh a shop rebuild too. For example, my buddy got a crate engine a couple of months ago and paid $1,000 more for a factory job with a 5 year warranty vs the local shop rebuilt one that offered a one year warranty.
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Replying to: steve_ (Nov 28, 2007 6:53 am) But it will get better and better, I'll grant you that.
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Nov 28, 2007 8:01 am) Maybe I'll get to buy a car with the hood welded shut before I croak.
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Replying to: steve_ (Nov 28, 2007 11:54 am) The problem with diagnostic machines is that they often lead to symptoms, not to causes. The human element has to build a diagnostic "tree" based on what the machine is telling him. Basically you are asking a machine to think. It can't do that. Well, it CAN play chess that's true but that's not quite the same thing. A chess board is a closed loop of sorts. A car is an almost endless universe of possible hassles 
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Nov 28, 2007 3:17 pm) And maybe you and 0Patience and 3% of all the other "techs" out there could diagnose why the plug eroded (probably just old age in my case lol). Everyone else will charge me a $60 "diagnostic" fee, change the plugs, tell me "they all do that" and send me on my merry way. |
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Up to about a year ago, we owned a '98 Passat, and I did almost all the work on it at home. This included diagnosing and fixing body computer and central locking issues. This was because of Bentley publishers, and a company called Ross-Tech. Bentley sells the factory repair manual on CD, and Ross-Tech sells software that'll let your laptop plug into the OBD-II port and emulate VW's diagnostic tool. In addition to listing all the OBD-II standard codes, it understands and displays VW specific codes, which you can then diagnose with the repair manual. It'll also let you monitor and log engine, transmission and body computer operation in real time. Plus, you can clear codes, and set any "options" (auto-lock and the like). Total cost for software, cable and shop manual was about $260. Not cheap, but the first time I used it I was ahead of the game, money wise. Also good for peace of mind, 'cause the one time the check engine light came on and we were 700 miles from home, I was able to determine it was nothing more serious than a sticky idle control solenoid. What's also interesting to me is how many other 3rd parties have been able to reverse engineer OEM software. If you have a forced induction VW/Audi, BMW, Evo or Subaru, there's some very good stuff out there. One of my cow-orkers was thinking of ditching his Legacy turbo 'cause of a nasty part-throttle stumble that Subaru knows about, but can't fix. Instead, he loaded Vishnu's stage I software, reduced the stumble to a tolerable level, and picked up 35 HP in the bargain. |
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Replying to: steve_ (Nov 28, 2007 3:31 pm) 
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Nov 28, 2007 4:04 pm) 
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Replying to: steve_ (Nov 28, 2007 3:31 pm) But let me give you an example of what can go wrong with the "techs" of today who don't learn basics. Today, I had a machine that had an alternator problem. For some reason, the alternator wasn't charging and some of the lights weren't working. The computer was telling us that the alternator wasn't charging. Ok, we knew that. Upon testing, the wire that signals the alternator to start (Some call it the signal wire, exciter wire or charge wire) didn't have voltage. Here is where it gets tricky. The computer actually controls the voltage to the signal wire. So, where does the tech go? Check the computer? It says the alternator isn't charging. Check the alternator? Why? Alternator can't charge with out a signal. Now, here's a bit to throw you, if you turned the lights on, the alternator started charging. So, back to basics. Visual check. Followed the alternator signal wire back and found that it had rubbed thru and was shorting on one of the wires that ran the headlights. (To clarify, the exciter wire had rubbed thru and partially into the headlight wiring) Headlights off, the connection was broken, headlights on, it supplied power to the alternator signal wire. Repaired the wire and headlights and alternator worked fine. The point of all this typing is that all the computer skills in the world wouldn't have solved this one. What solved it was basic electrical knowledge. For those who I bored to death, sorry about that.
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Replying to: 0patience (Nov 28, 2007 4:49 pm) Plus I'm sure you've run into situations where the wire got pierced or something and is shorted but there's no external visible evidence of a problem. I'm just tossing out terms I don't fully understand, but I think you get my drift. |
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